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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Contributing uncredited cast has changed |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 681 |
| Posted: | | | | Sorry if this is old news, but just noticed it myself when contributing UK edition of movie "Intermezzo" (1939). I fully audited the cast and crew, but I had two uncredited entries in my local entry. I can't remember if they are remnants from a profile downloaded from Intervocative all the way back, or if they are my own doing when I added this DVD into my collection.
Anyway, the list had two uncredited and I decided not to remove them because I don't know if they are in or not. This was the first time I noticed that when submitting such DVD, the Invelos' website warns that there are uncredited actors in my cast list and that I should only submit them, if 1) I have verified their participation myself, or 2) there is an earlier contribution where those entries are documented. Neither of those two conditions applied to me, so I removed them and then submitted.
I think this is definitely step to right direction. I have many times contributed fully audited cast list, but haven't removed the uncredited entries (even if they seem to be taken directly from you know where) because I might do some damage to verified content. This clarifies matters, and I feel I can with better justification remove those uncredited entries that in 99% certainty come from you know where. | | | Mika I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez) | | | Last edited: by Draxen |
| Registered: August 7, 2007 | Posts: 185 |
| Posted: | | | | Just noticed this too. A nice addition IMO. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | This has been there for a little while now. It only appears if there are 'new' uncredited entries in the contribution. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: May 18, 2007 | Posts: 232 |
| Posted: | | | | If there's uncredited cast in a profile I reaudit, I go to the contribution info from the ohter contributor and see if they've given a source for them. If not, and I don't find any good source either, I remove them stating that there are currently no sources for these cast members. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 681 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: This has been there for a little while now. It only appears if there are 'new' uncredited entries in the contribution. Ok, then this explains it. This was new entry at Invelos (no previous contribution notes), but I seem to remember that it was already at Intervocative... might be wrong, though. | | | Mika I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez) |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 681 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Gemini76: Quote: If there's uncredited cast in a profile I reaudit, I go to the contribution info from the ohter contributor and see if they've given a source for them. If not, and I don't find any good source either, I remove them stating that there are currently no sources for these cast members. This is what I have been tempted to do many times, but since many contributions can be from the times when there were no contribution notes required, I have been hesitant to remove them just in case somebody really did get confirmation somehow. | | | Mika I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez) |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 1,777 |
| Posted: | | | | You guys are pretty lucky in your respective regions that you can clean some of this up. Over here in region 1 land, uncredited is treated like the junk in grandpa's attic. It looks like trash, but nobody will get rid of it because it might be valuable someday. Of course, nobody is going to actually go through the trouble to find out if it really is valuable, so the attic never gets cleaned out. |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | It often depends on the age of the title. '000s of titles were grandfathered in from the pre Invelos days without any new conribution notes to go with them. Now some could be bad some could be good but not a good idea to throw the baby out with the bath water. I thought the guidance was to remove if they were an exact match for IMDB and there was no other way of verifying... Here you go Quote: I'll reiterate it here - if the source of the data is not immediately evident, there's no reason to remove uncredited entries. However, if (for instance), the data is a carbon copy of IMDB or any other third party database, that is enough reason to remove it. When removing it, be specific in your contribution notes so we don't pass it over. | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 467 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote: You guys are pretty lucky in your respective regions that you can clean some of this up. Over here in region 1 land, uncredited is treated like the junk in grandpa's attic. It looks like trash, but nobody will get rid of it because it might be valuable someday. Of course, nobody is going to actually go through the trouble to find out if it really is valuable, so the attic never gets cleaned out. I have tried to remove unverified uncredited cast here, and it gets turned down every time. So it's the same here as it is over in region 1. |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | If it's a carbon copy of IMDB and there are no earlier notes then the current position is that you can remove it.
All changes to cast and crew require entries in the notes justifying them. If you remove cast and crew then your notes should justify it, "there are uncredited entries and I haven't made any effort to verify their presence so I am removing them" is no justification. "The uncredited entries are a complete carbon copy of the IMDB and there are no notes justifying their presence" is a justification. But carbon copy means identical. If they are almost identical it tends to indicate that at some point they have been checked and corrected prior to notes with intial contributions or under version 2
If I get one of these either on an audit or voting I can usually find the uncredited if I look hard enough. There is no requirement to remove them. If you don't like them then it's easy to remove them from your local. If you are worried it is bad data then please try to find out if it is before removing them because removing good data is also a bad thing, and some uncredited entries are real gems. In older films only the studio actors tended to get a credit so even some speaking roles would go uncredited and cameos are often film legend. The roles for uncredited tend to make it easy to find them if one takes the time. | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
| Registered: March 28, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,299 |
| Posted: | | | | Personally my beef with the removal of unverified uncredited actors is that more often than not the contributor doesn't appear to have tried to verify them before submitting the removal. At least there's rarely any mention in the contribution notes of such an attempt having been made.
Also, and even more anecdotal than above, there's been a few occasions where I myself have decided to verify prior to voting, and without much trouble at all have found non-IMDb data to back up the presence of uncredited actors.
So, wanting to clean up the database is all well and good, but as far as I'm concerned, contributors should at least make a good attempt, using a couple of search engines, at finding the information before they simply remove it wholesale. If it is mentioned in the contribution notes that an extensive verification attempt was made, and failed, then I am much more likely to vote yes to removal of undocumented uncredited actors.
KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS! Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles. You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,879 |
| Posted: | | | | I recently removed almost all the uncredited cast in my edition of The Producers (1968). It was a total IMDB clone, which I could tell because of the inclusion of someone named Michael Davis. IMDB lists that uncredited appearance as his only film. So how can you recognize someone if their only film is one uncredited appearance? But I kept the one guy I could recognize, and provided the time stamp for him. It was accepted, so its definitely possible to get uncredited removed, even in R1. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -- Thorin Oakenshield |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote: I recently removed almost all the uncredited cast in my edition of The Producers (1968). It was a total IMDB clone, which I could tell because of the inclusion of someone named Michael Davis. IMDB lists that uncredited appearance as his only film. So how can you recognize someone if their only film is one uncredited appearance? But I kept the one guy I could recognize, and provided the time stamp for him.
It was accepted, so its definitely possible to get uncredited removed, even in R1. Well of course unless Michael Davis was in that film in which case you have removed good data. | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,879 |
| Posted: | | | | Well, Michael Davis certainly wasn't in The Producers, even if Michael Davis might have been. The problem with Michael Davis is that there are like 11 of them just in our database, none of which seem to have birth years attached, since the one in the producers linked up with the trombone player I have other credits for. And the trombone player definitely isn't in the movie. If the site you linked me to had a picture of that one, I'd try to identify him and then put him back in if that was the case. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -- Thorin Oakenshield |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | That's the problem with birth years. If there are not any then we only have one Michael Davis. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 681 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Graveworm: Quote: It often depends on the age of the title. '000s of titles were grandfathered in from the pre Invelos days without any new conribution notes to go with them. Now some could be bad some could be good but not a good idea to throw the baby out with the bath water. I thought the guidance was to remove if they were an exact match for IMDB and there was no other way of verifying... Here you go
Quote: I'll reiterate it here - if the source of the data is not immediately evident, there's no reason to remove uncredited entries. However, if (for instance), the data is a carbon copy of IMDB or any other third party database, that is enough reason to remove it. When removing it, be specific in your contribution notes so we don't pass it over. That is IMO a good guidance, and I definitely wasn't considering blindly removing all uncredited cast if there were no verification provided in the previous contribution notes. If those are entered the way they are on IMDb, don't have previous verification in contribution notes, and I can't verify them being there myself, then it's a different matter. | | | Mika I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez) |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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