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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Cine Grande Corporation aka Muraglia/Sladek Films |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Muraglia/Sladek Filmworksis mostly credited as Muraglia/Sladek Films in the movies. And here you have Mr. Daniel Sladek himself telling: Quote:
Prior to the 1998 creation of Daniel Sladek Entertainment Corp., in 1994 Sladek partnered with producer Silvio Muraglia to form Cine Grande Corporation. How should the credit Muraglia/Sladek Films come in the online database? They produced 4 films: RUSSELL MULCAHY'S TALE OF THE MUMMYSUB DOWNSILENT TRIGGERHIDDEN ASSASSIN aka The Shooter | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mmm, that's a pretty tough one. In case of more similar name variants I'd use the full name as listed on Mr. Sladek's website, but since the studio names credited on-screen apparently look nothing like "Cine Grande Corporation", I guess that's out. I'd like to check the credits for all four, including the "small print" at the very end of the end credits - do you own all four? I checked the "credit block" on the various DVD covers for those four movies: RUSSELL MULCAHY'S TALE OF THE MUMMY - Muraglia/Sladek Productions SUB DOWN - Muraglia/Sladek Filmworks SILENT TRIGGER - none of those studio names is credited; they just both have personal producer credits. HIDDEN ASSASSIN aka The Shooter - Muraglia/Sladek Films So I guess I'd leave 'Silent Trigger' out of the equasion. That leaves us with one credit for "Muraglia/Sladek Productions", one for "Muraglia/Sladek Filmworks" and one for "Muraglia/Sladek Films". There's obviously no sense in using these slightly different name variants for each film, as that would completely defeat the purpose of tracking studios at all - and the rules themselves confirm that we're after "correct names for studios" as well. It's just not always easy to determine what that "correct name" is. After some research, I think I'd go with Muraglia/Sladek Filmworks. Apart from being used on IMDb, it's also referred to as such on various other websites: - http://www.variety.com/vstory/VR1117434983.html?categoryid=38&cs=1- http://www.inbaseline.com/company.aspx?company_id=2081729- http://www.hollywood.com/TVList/pc/Muraglia%2FSladek+Filmworks/SORT/B- http://www.stefanomainetti.com/english/pages/cs.html | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | no, I just have one of those titles, verified a contribution of another user with the credits on dvd. And strangely the dvd credits says: Muraglia/Sladek Films and not Muraglia/Sladek Filmworks, started some research and got the IMDB result: Muraglia/Sladek Filmworks and came also on the site from Mr. Sladek, who says the company name is Cine Grande Corporation And I have none of them in my local database. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is where T!M and I disagree. I don't do 'common name' with studios.
If the name in the credits is 'Muraglia/Sladek Films', then that is what I enter. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I don't do 'common name' with studios. Luckily, the rules do, so the rest of us are interested in establishing the correct studio name. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Luckily, the rules do.... Really?? I can't find that!  | | | | Hal |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Luckily, the rules do....
Really??
I can't find that! Maybe you should try reading them... Of course, as we've seen so many times times lately, everyone just reads what they want to see, but seriously: the rules specifically use the phrase "correct names for studios", and even go so far as to refer you to the forums if you're unsure about what that "correct name" is. That's exactly what Giga Wizard did, and we're now busy establishing that "correct name". Again: the main purpose of tracking studios is to be able to have DVD Profiler show you a list of all the films from a certain studio or company in your collection. You'd lose that if you were going to go by all the slightly different name variations used in film credits. Remember that it's not even un-common to have three different name variations for a certain studio listed within a single movie: first a logo, then an actual mention in the opening credits, and then once again at the very end of the end credits. It's absolutely ridiculous to track studios "as credited" - certainly in light of the fact that we're now using common names for cast and crew as well - and IMHO, that's why the rules on the subject are written the way they are. Maybe some of you can choose to ignore certain parts of the rules you don't like, but I cannot disregard the phrase "correct names for studios". | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Maybe you should try reading them... Of course, as we've seen so many times times lately, everyone just reads what they want to see, but seriously: the rules specifically use the phrase "correct names for studios", and even go so far as to refer you to the forums if you're unsure about what that "correct name" is. That's exactly what Giga Wizard did, and we're now busy establishing that "correct name". And this is why you and I differ. The rule says 'correct name' not ' common name'. The name of the studio may change over time, but that does not make older versions incorrect. Quote:
(...)
Maybe some of you can choose to ignore certain parts of the rules you don't like, but I cannot disregard the phrase "correct names for studios". Ah, but there is the rub. We aren't ignoring it. We are reading it for what it says, not what we want it to say. First, there is no requirement to use the studio thread in the forum. It is an option if you are 'unsure'. Second, as I stated above, it says 'correct names', not 'common names'. The fact that we use common names for cast/crew has nothing to do with this issue. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
it says 'correct names', not 'common names'. The fact that we use common names for cast/crew has nothing to do with this issue. I never claimed otherwise. I just pointed out a certain similarity, nothing more. The rules tell me to use "correct names for studios", so that's what I do. As for the rest: you're now seemingly trying to make this about studio names that change over time. I wasn't talking about that. In most cases, the studio name remains exactly the same, but is referred to in film credits using slightly different name variants. That is something else entirely. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
it says 'correct names', not 'common names'. The fact that we use common names for cast/crew has nothing to do with this issue.
I never claimed otherwise. I just pointed out a certain similarity, nothing more. The rules tell me to use "correct names for studios", so that's what I do. I fail to see the similarity. Each section asks for a different thing. Quote:
As for the rest: you're now seemingly trying to make this about studio names that change over time. I wasn't talking about that. In most cases, the studio name remains exactly the same, but is referred to in film credits using slightly different name variants. That is something else entirely. No, it isn't. Those name variants reflect the name of the production company at the time that film was made. While the parent company name may remain the same, the production arm can have many name changes. A good example of this is MARVEL. They have released films under four names, between 2000 and 2008, that I am aware of: Marvel Entertainment Group Marvel Entertainment Marvel Enterprises Marvel Studios All those names were the correct name of the studio at the time those films were released...which is why they are listed in the film credits. By the same token, 'Muraglia/Sladek Productions', 'Muraglia/Sladek Filmworks' and 'Muraglia/Sladek Films' are the correct studio names for the films they produced and that is the name that should be entered into the profile for that film. Nowhere in the rules does it allow for what you want to do. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Those name variants reflect the name of the production company at the time that film was made. Says who? That can certainly happen, but you do need to allow for the fact that it's just a slight variation in the way that it's credited. If it's really a different company, please go ahead and use that. But if it's just the credit, use the "correct name" Quote:
All those names were the correct name of the studio at the time those films were released...which is why they are listed in the film credits. Says who? See above: while what you say obviously happens sometimes, most of the time it's just a minor difference in credit, and for those, we should use the "correct name". Quote:
By the same token, 'Muraglia/Sladek Productions', 'Muraglia/Sladek Filmworks' and 'Muraglia/Sladek Films' are the correct studio names for the films they produced and that is the name that should be entered into the profile for that film. Says who? Show me proof that a company called 'Muraglia/Sladek Films' ever existed, and that it's not just a typo made by the guy typing up the credits? Don't just take the credits' word for it. Bottom line: in those cases where what you're saying is true, I'll act as such. My list of studios certainly isn't so limited as you may think it is. However, I don't take the credits' word for it - per the rules, I'll do the research and find the "correct name" for the studio at that time. You're mixing up minor variations in credits with actual studio names - both scenario's happen, and both should be dealt with in the appropriate manner. And while there certainly will be cases where you and I disagree, I think we'd actually agree for the most part. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
(...)
Bottom line: in those cases where what you're saying is true, I'll act as such. My list of studios certainly isn't so limited as you may think it is. However, I don't take the credits' word for it - per the rules, I'll do the research and find the "correct name" for the studio at that time. You're mixing up minor variations in credits with actual studio names - both scenario's happen, and both should be dealt with in the appropriate manner. And while there certainly will be cases where you and I disagree, I think we'd actually agree for the most part. The introduction to the rules say: The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself. Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover. In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible.The studio credits are on the DVD. If you want to deviate from them, you have to document that they are incorrect. You aren't doing that. You are making an assumption based on the current studio name. There is no provision for that in the rules. The way you want to do it leads us down the road that Giga seems to have taken. He seems to be ignoring the film credits in favor of a 3rd party source because that is the current 'correct' studio name. I am sorry, but that isn't what the rules say to do. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
The way you want to do it leads us down the road that Giga seems to have taken. He seems to be ignoring the film credits in favor of a 3rd party source because that is the current 'correct' studio name. I am sorry, but that isn't what the rules say to do. that is not 3rd party source! This is 1st hand information: Mr. Daniel Sladek stating "Cine Grande Corporation" made these 4 films. and Quote:
Studios
List the Studios in the following priority.
Theatrical Release Studio(s)
Production Company(s)
DVD Distribution studio(s) if there is room available.
Do not abbreviate Studio names. e.g, use Universal Pictures not just Universal; The Criterion Collection rather than Criterion or Criterion Collection; Walt Disney Pictures not just Disney or Disney DVD. Exception: If the studio name is too long to fit, use standard abbreviation rules.
There is further information about correct names for studios, and the opportunity to ask questions if unsure, in the Contributions forum. And why seems it, you're trying accusing me of something? | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | All it requires now is an inclusion in this thread: Studios Reference Threadand I propose under the heading: Cine Grande CorporationFilm Credit: Muraglia/Sladek ProductionsMuraglia/Sladek FilmworksMuraglia/Sladek Filmsproduced 4 movies: The Shooter, Silent Trigger, Sub Down and Tale of the Mummy | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
The way you want to do it leads us down the road that Giga seems to have taken. He seems to be ignoring the film credits in favor of a 3rd party source because that is the current 'correct' studio name. I am sorry, but that isn't what the rules say to do.
that is not 3rd party source! This is 1st hand information: Mr. Daniel Sladek stating "Cine Grande Corporation" made these 4 films. The DVD is the 1st party source. Anything else is 2nd or 3rd. In addition, all you have shown is that "Cine Grande Corporation" is the parent company. No different than 'Universal Studios' or 'Sony Pictures Entertainment, Inc.' We do not list the parent companies, we list the production arms. Quote:
And why seems it, you're trying accusing me of something? I am not accusing you. I said "you seem to be ignoring the film credits in favor of a 3rd party source." It seems like you want to list 'Cine Grande Corporation' as the studio in the profile. Is that not what you are doing? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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