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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Speaking for myself, I just don't understand anybody that let's these forums affect them that much. I will admit that I have gotten a little miffed on occasion, but never enough to walk away or stop contributing. 
Because when you read remarks from people stating they would vote no on data they know to be correct, but you didn't document it to their satisfaction or would vote no on a submission you made if it has incorrect data you didn't even submit, really, what's the point?
I keep all of my changes local now, because it's not worth the headache to try and please everyone. I can just please myself and be happy. I guess we're fortunate that everyone doesn't take this position. It is really sad to think that a few rotten apples can potentially ruin it for everyone. Tougher skin is probably in order for all! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Because when you read remarks from people stating they would vote no on data they know to be correct, but you didn't document it to their satisfaction When did this happen? The issue that came up earlier was about a user that refused to document his data in any way, shape, or form. That user stated, quite clearly, that it was the voter's responsibility to document the changes. All he had to do was point out the fact that he made them. Quote:
or would vote no on a submission you made if it has incorrect data you didn't even submit, I can understand how this can be annoying but, said users are not going to approve or decline the contribution. If I don't agree with a 'no' vote, and can't convince the 'no' voter to change their mind, I ignore it and let the screeners decide. Why does it have to be any harder than that? Quote:
really, what's the point? The point is that this software is what it is because people take the time to contribute data. If we all decided to keep our data to ourselves, how long do you think this program would last? I don't contribute for the benefit of the forum members. I contribute for the benefit of the 'regular' users. That, to me, is the point. Quote:
I keep all of my changes local now, because it's not worth the headache to try and please everyone. I can just please myself and be happy. Who said you had to please everyone? Simply do the best you can to follow the rules and let the screeners decide. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I guess we're fortunate that everyone doesn't take this position.
It is really sad to think that a few rotten apples can potentially ruin it for everyone.
Tougher skin is probably in order for all! I think that's the issue. While not everyone takes this position, a lot of people do because of attitudes of some on this forum. I'll flat out say Skip is one of them. I know at least 10 people personally with DVDProfiler (this is not "online" friends, real live people). Of the 10, a couple just don't submit because they don't, but the rest don't submit at all because of what they see in the contribution forum and/or remarks made in the voting process. They just don't bother because of the sour attitude. This is not to say there aren't great people on the board, there are. But your bad apples are really bitter, sour apples that is a reflection on both the forum and the software in the contribution sense. People want to have fun doing this, not get into (or read) a twelve page argument whenever a seemingly innocent question is raised. Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
When did this happen? The issue that came up earlier was about a user that refused to document his data in any way, shape, or form. That user stated, quite clearly, that it was the voter's responsibility to document the changes. All he had to do was point out the fact that he made them. It's quotes like this that tarnish Profiler's reputation: Quoting Skip: Quote:
...in my book undocumented data is INCORRECT data even if it is correct. This doesn't even make sense. At all. And it's this attitude that seems to be prevalent throughout the contribution threads. If you take a step back and, instead of a senior member, look at some of these threads through a lurker's eyes, or new member's eyes and there will be no question on why there aren't more frequent submitters. People just don't want to deal with this hostility, especially when (as I mentioned) this is something to be fun. Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I can understand how this can be annoying but, said users are not going to approve or decline the contribution. If I don't agree with a 'no' vote, and can't convince the 'no' voter to change their mind, I ignore it and let the screeners decide. Why does it have to be any harder than that? It shouldn't be, but if the screener sides with the lone no vote, I go back to what's the point. If you are getting a decline on a submission that the data you entered is correct, but the old data is incorrect, why even bother if submitting correct data if it's only going to be declined because one person (or two people) have a bug up their ass? Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
The point is that this software is what it is because people take the time to contribute data. If we all decided to keep our data to ourselves, how long do you think this program would last? I don't contribute for the benefit of the forum members. I contribute for the benefit of the 'regular' users. That, to me, is the point. I agree, to an extent. I would love to help build the database, but some of the forum members are so negative and so nasty I just don't bother. To be honest, I really wish it was different, but it's really hard to find the motivation to contribute to something where if you make a mistake, or do something someone doesn't agree with, you could get nasty PMs. Like Pantheon, I'm better off just handling my DB locally, and I can assure you, I'm not the only one that feels this way. Like I said, there are some incredibly helpful people on this forum. Incredibly helpful. But your few bad apples who run seemingly unchecked (and seemingly encouraged) really hurts the missing database contributions that you could be having. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
But wouldn't it be nice to see that the CLT numbers have changed?
If DaddyDVD/Martin had included the CLT numbers in his notes, one couldn't come back later and say that his contribution was wrong, just that the situation have changed
And why not include the numbers? It's not that hard. After all you're looking them up when you make the contribution. It's just a matter of copy and paste and the voters wouldn't have to look up the numbers themselves.
I can't see a single reason for not including the numbers. I tell you why: because the CLT results are sometimes not reliable as it counts titles instead of original titles and voters will re-check if you didn't lie about it anyway (I know I do). But I must say that sometimes I use these numbers if changes I made are not that obvious. For the recently added art crew members it's all very simple at the moment as not many users are adding those and the numbers are very low. And why would I want to know what these numbers were in the past if I want to change a profile in the future? I'm only interested in what they will be then. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: September 29, 2008 | | Posts: 384 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I guess we're fortunate that everyone doesn't take this position.
It is really sad to think that a few rotten apples can potentially ruin it for everyone.
Tougher skin is probably in order for all!
I think that's the issue. While not everyone takes this position, a lot of people do because of attitudes of some on this forum. I'll flat out say Skip is one of them. I know at least 10 people personally with DVDProfiler (this is not "online" friends, real live people). Of the 10, a couple just don't submit because they don't, but the rest don't submit at all because of what they see in the contribution forum and/or remarks made in the voting process. They just don't bother because of the sour attitude.
This is not to say there aren't great people on the board, there are. But your bad apples are really bitter, sour apples that is a reflection on both the forum and the software in the contribution sense. People want to have fun doing this, not get into (or read) a twelve page argument whenever a seemingly innocent question is raised.
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
When did this happen? The issue that came up earlier was about a user that refused to document his data in any way, shape, or form. That user stated, quite clearly, that it was the voter's responsibility to document the changes. All he had to do was point out the fact that he made them.
It's quotes like this that tarnish Profiler's reputation:
Quoting Skip:
Quote:
...in my book undocumented data is INCORRECT data even if it is correct.
This doesn't even make sense. At all. And it's this attitude that seems to be prevalent throughout the contribution threads.
If you take a step back and, instead of a senior member, look at some of these threads through a lurker's eyes, or new member's eyes and there will be no question on why there aren't more frequent submitters. People just don't want to deal with this hostility, especially when (as I mentioned) this is something to be fun.
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I can understand how this can be annoying but, said users are not going to approve or decline the contribution. If I don't agree with a 'no' vote, and can't convince the 'no' voter to change their mind, I ignore it and let the screeners decide. Why does it have to be any harder than that?
It shouldn't be, but if the screener sides with the lone no vote, I go back to what's the point. If you are getting a decline on a submission that the data you entered is correct, but the old data is incorrect, why even bother if submitting correct data if it's only going to be declined because one person (or two people) have a bug up their ass?
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
The point is that this software is what it is because people take the time to contribute data. If we all decided to keep our data to ourselves, how long do you think this program would last? I don't contribute for the benefit of the forum members. I contribute for the benefit of the 'regular' users. That, to me, is the point.
I agree, to an extent. I would love to help build the database, but some of the forum members are so negative and so nasty I just don't bother. To be honest, I really wish it was different, but it's really hard to find the motivation to contribute to something where if you make a mistake, or do something someone doesn't agree with, you could get nasty PMs. Like Pantheon, I'm better off just handling my DB locally, and I can assure you, I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Like I said, there are some incredibly helpful people on this forum. Incredibly helpful. But your few bad apples who run seemingly unchecked (and seemingly encouraged) really hurts the missing database contributions that you could be having. Just wanted to chime in to say that I agree with just about everything Alien Redrum says here, and I commend him for saying all of this when I know many others have wanted to say as much, but have been afraid to do so. So thank you Alien~  | | | | "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
The point is that this software is what it is because people take the time to contribute data. If we all decided to keep our data to ourselves, how long do you think this program would last? I don't contribute for the benefit of the forum members. I contribute for the benefit of the 'regular' users. That, to me, is the point.
I have been warning for nearly two years that the way rules were used, with excessive rigorism, made many users fly from contributing. I saw this in my area where new titles are hardly contributed, when it was difficult to be the first contributor in the times of intervocative. We should promote first contribution, and have a vote system on interesting changes, and not on the conformity to the rules, the contribution changes being anonymous. I explain. If somebody finds a credit as Jean Paul Belmondo, the change from Jean-Paul Belmondo to Jean Paul Belmondo is correct per the rules, but not interesting as it brings nothing on a well-known actor but just breaks a link. The majority of voters will decide if the change is interesting or not, and only on that, not knowing who made the change, to avoid bias. Accepted changes would have one more point, refused one would have a point less. A totally knew profile would gain 5 points. Than Ken could publish a list of best contributors. Such a system would promote new profiles, which is what interests most of users that never come here. I'm sure that the use of common sense of every one will tell everybody what is "interesting" for the database, and what is not... And ping pongers would rapidly see their score very low... And we probably would avoid some of those endless discussions, with no personal fights , contributions being anonymous. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
When did this happen? The issue that came up earlier was about a user that refused to document his data in any way, shape, or form. That user stated, quite clearly, that it was the voter's responsibility to document the changes. All he had to do was point out the fact that he made them. If you're talking about me you're lying, because that's not true. I do document my changes if I think they need to be. And for the record I'm always trying to keep the majority happy as I sometimes add things that I do not want in my local (like a costume supervisor), so please do not pretend I'm lazy or an ashole because I'm not. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
|   | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
When did this happen? The issue that came up earlier was about a user that refused to document his data in any way, shape, or form. That user stated, quite clearly, that it was the voter's responsibility to document the changes. All he had to do was point out the fact that he made them.
If you're talking about me you're lying, because that's not true. I do document my changes if I think they need to be. And for the record I'm always trying to keep the majority happy as I sometimes add things that I do not want in my local (like a costume supervisor), so please do not pretend I'm lazy or an ashole because I'm not. Man, what arrogance! (bold by me). What does this section in the rules tell you to do, Martin?; When you contribute a changed profile, you are required to include Contribution Notes. Use the space to enter full explanations for all changes and/or additions that you make. Make special reference to any changes where:You have verified there is a discrepancy between the box and the actual content of the DVD - include your verification method. You are making a subtle change that may be hard to spot - for example spelling correction to the overview. You are removing incorrect information. Contribution Notes provide an explanation of your changes to other DVD Profiler users and Invelos for voting and deciding whether to accept your contribution, so make your notes useful and descriptive.And you have several times, over several posts the last several days openly stated that you explain your changes only when you see the need... I repeat; Man what arrogance!  | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! | | | | Last edited: by Berak |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have a solution for all disgruntled DVD Profiler contributors, buy Region 4 Australian DVDs. I have a number of good reasons for suggesting this: - We need more contributors. You will be made very welcome and even receive positive reputation feedback for your good contribitions; - Avoid all of the pain associated with contributing in other regions. We do not have any obnoxious users in Region 4 Australia that I know of ; - Our dollar is currently very weak compared to others. I don't know why we have to suffer so much in this World Wide Financial Crisis but everyone flees our dollar when fiscal and budgetary challenges appear. A link to the current exhange rates can be found here. After being at near parity to the US dollar six months ago, this is quite a decline. That means cheap DVDs for you. Our economy needs the business; and - As Europeans already know, the PAL colour system is superior to NTSC.  Come on, you know that you want to. | | | | Last edited: by Telecine |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote:
Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
I do document my changes if I think they need to be.
Man, what arrogance! (bold by me).
...
I repeat;
Man what arrogance! I document what I've changed and if needed why as I think the average user is smart enough to figure out why I've changed things. I think that's the opposite of being arrogant, because if I thought I knew things better I wouldn't take the time to contribute all my hard work to begin with. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Speaking for myself, I just don't understand anybody that let's these forums affect them that much. I will admit that I have gotten a little miffed on occasion, but never enough to walk away or stop contributing. Your understanding is hardly important. What is important is that this forum and recent changes to the program have driven away another user. There has always been a problem with 'new' users attempting to mess up profiles when they first start contributing. I can accept that. However, with the current Crew rules being so ambiguous there are profiles going through and being submitted that are full of rubbish. Rubbish that can't be voted down IMO because the rules aren't specific enough. That's one of my main issues. Then you have the vitriol in the forum. The hypocritical and the hateful. People who seem to excel at making others feel horrible or angry. Recently (purely from a personal position) I've seen more threads of a upsetting nature than helpful. Add to this the never ending debates about things in the rules which should be obvious or need clarification. Add to that the abuse of the rating system - which everyone knows happens. Everything, for me, comes back to the rules needing to be updated and specific BEFORE any new program implementations - to prevent unnecessary threads and bickering. I have every intention of still coming into the forum in an attempt to keep up to date with any changes to the program. Here's what I won't do: 1. Contribute to existing profiles. 2. Participate in any more 'rules' threads' 3. Attempt to diffuse evil threads. 4. Abide by 'forum decisions' which are NOT supported by the rules (basically be like the thousands of other people who DO NOT come in the forum and therefore CANNOT know about such minority decisions. 5. Bother voting on changes to existing profiles (if people want to mess up the online db that's up to them). I realise that all of this may seem stupid to some forum gods. Tough. I'm happy to say that I may be stupid but at least I'll be stupidly happy. P.S. Thanks for the red arrow on my previous post. They're cool and I may just start collecting them! (Skip...maybe we can swap duplicates!   ) |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
And why would I want to know what these numbers were in the past if I want to change a profile in the future? I'm only interested in what they will be then.
I just know that I have found it useful when there already is common name set in the profile and I want to change that. It's useful to be able to point out that the CLT numbers have changed. But I guess that's just me | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
| | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
And why would I want to know what these numbers were in the past if I want to change a profile in the future? I'm only interested in what they will be then.
I just know that I have found it useful when there already is common name set in the profile and I want to change that. It's useful to be able to point out that the CLT numbers have changed.
But I guess that's just me It's not just you...  | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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