Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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I think that if Asian actors want to act in Hollywood films they should follow Western conventions, that would end all this. (...)

We do not profile Hollywood films only. Therefore the problem would still be there. The only profile that I own which features Mr. Chow has a country of origin other than the USA.

Quoting RHo:

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Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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I think that if Asian actors want to act in Hollywood films they should follow Western conventions, that would end all this. (...)

We do not profile Hollywood films only. Therefore the problem would still be there. The only profile that I own which features Mr. Chow has a country of origin other than the USA.

So what, Rho. Of course we don't Profile Hollywood only. Assuming that a character set is being used that the program can cope with. Any actor may be credited any number of possible ways, each film credit stands on its own, independently of every other film credit for any given actor.

You keep dragging terms in to support yourself that we don't use, like FAMILY name, that is not the correct term and you are applying your interpretation again despite repeated explanations of just how wrong you are yet again. You are free to do whatever you wish with the data locally but the Online objective is be representative of the data as it appears On Screen,  not as you hallucinate it to be.

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Tim:

It's not quite that simple. That answer in and of it self would be the CLT, we don't do Community names as i mentioned in my first post on this thread. As you can see from many of the comments this is revolving around the traditiional argument with all the same old tired excuses. I am amazed that some seem to believe we can sort Actors and crew Online.

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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:

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The way I see it is that as the rules currently stand, he has to be listed with Chow in the first field regardless of its definition within Profiler.

The rules say, bolded by me -

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For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

They don't say 'exactly except for...'.

Since Chow is listed first, it should be entered first.

We do enter the names exactly like they appear in the credits. The last name (for Mr. Chow this is "Chow") into last name field and the first name into first name field. And then we have to apply the part of the rules which you have ignored:

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Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.

Quoting RHo:

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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:

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The way I see it is that as the rules currently stand, he has to be listed with Chow in the first field regardless of its definition within Profiler.

The rules say, bolded by me -

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For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

They don't say 'exactly except for...'.

Since Chow is listed first, it should be entered first.

We do enter the names exactly like they appear in the credits. The last name (for Mr. Chow this is "Chow") into last name field and the first name into first name field. And then we have to apply the part of the rules which you have ignored:

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Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is not how the name appears. Thank God, I don't see Contributions from you. But i can only guess what kind of a mess you have created.

I will say that I am always amused at the authoritative tone that you always take, Rho. Given that you have no basis to express such authoriity.

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting m.cellophane:

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I'm advocating putting Chinese family names and western surnames in the same field and then using Credited As to display the name in the order it is written. That honors the way the name is written and stores the data properly for what it is.

This is a position I supported a while back.  I changed my mind because that is NOT what the 'credited as' field is for.  The 'credited as' field is for name variants.  This is not a name variant.

Yes, this is a credit variant of the same names. Or in other words a variant of the how the names of a person are ordered in the credit. A perfect candidat for the credited as field.

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting m.cellophane:

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Until these battles came out here, I had no idea that Chow Yun-Fat's surname was Chow (although I was aware of Chinese surnames). Now I do. If we enter Chinese family names as "first names" we misrepresent what it is.

And that is the fatal flaw with this line of thinking...it depends on knowledge some people may not have.  If you, as a fairly knowledgeable user, didn't know that 'Chow' was the surname of a fairly well known actor, how can we expect the 'regular' users to know?  Especially when we have some asian actors adopting a western format.

This is the same flaw we have with Western credits for example Mrs. Bonham Carter. How can we expect the 'regular' users to know that Bonham is part of the last name and not her middle name? You already know the answer: documentation.

Quoting Unicus69:

 

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    Quoting m.cellophane:

       

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        Until these battles came out here, I had no idea that Chow Yun-Fat's surname was Chow (although I was aware of Chinese surnames). Now I do. If we enter Chinese family names as "first names" we misrepresent what it is.


    And that is the fatal flaw with this line of thinking...it depends on knowledge some people may not have.  If you, as a fairly knowledgeable user, didn't know that 'Chow' was the surname of a fairly well known actor, how can we expect the 'regular' users to know?  Especially when we have some asian actors adopting a western format.


This is the same flaw we have with Western credits for example Mrs. Bonham Carter. How can we expect the 'regular' users to know that Bonham is part of the last name and not her middle name? You already know the answer: documentation.

Oh I love it, Rho. This is the flaw in Western credits. From my viewopoint it is the flaw in your system and your assumptions. Pretty arrogant statement ion your part, amigo.

I keep explaining that you want to apply name standards. And the only standard we have is the credits. I don't really care how you list it if it looks like the screen credit. Nor do I give a hoot what you do with the data locally that is your business.

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