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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Crew Credits: How do you want to track them? |
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Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: Most movies will have their Credits translated into English, most but not all. I don't see this as a reason to adopt a wholly self-centered attitude.
Skip And this is where you are just plain wrong. Most [non-English] movies do NOT have their credits translated into English (judging by the over 1,000 non-English language movies in my collection). And it's not solely about character sets either. Even if the credits are in a language using Roman characters, if I don't have the faintest idea what they mean (Hungarian and Finnish come to mind as languages I do not understand one syllable of), the data become useless to anyone not speaking these languages. For YOUR collection this might be a minor problem, but for mine and many others': FAR from it. So I'd say: if there's anyone here with a self-centered attitude, it's YOU. | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 906 |
| Posted: | | | | This has nothing to do with Japanese characters. It has to do with the words.
To take another example then, to get everything clear and to not have the character set distract you.
What good will it do to enter the Dutch credits from a Dutch movie released in Norway, when nobody who will ever own that release knows what the credits mean? | | | The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | OOOOOO 1,0000 movies. So let's be real liberal and say what there are 10-20,000 such movies in the Online.....hmmm out of 481,000 titles, that's 2 to 4% of the total, doesn't sound like huge problem.
That simply is not a reason to avoid Open Credits. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,506 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote: What good will it do to enter the Dutch credits from a Dutch movie released in Norway, when nobody who will ever own that release knows what the credits mean? We already do that for Cast with role names. If those are only in one language, we don't translate them. I personally don't see Crew as being any different in that regard. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 906 |
| Posted: | | | | Well, since dee1959jay has about between 4000 and 5000 movies in his collection, 1000 movies is between 20% and 25%. Sounds like a much more accurate estimate since you just made up the number of 20000 movies. | | | The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote: Quoting reybr:
Quote: What good will it do to enter the Dutch credits from a Dutch movie released in Norway, when nobody who will ever own that release knows what the credits mean?
We already do that for Cast with role names. If those are only in one language, we don't translate them. I personally don't see Crew as being any different in that regard. That's a red herring. Most role names contain NAMES, which cannot be translated anyway. In Cast, this only becomes a problem for role names (usually for minor cast members) such as "barkeeper" and their non-English equivalents. In Crew, however, it makes the entire Crew section USELESS. | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 906 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote: Quoting reybr:
Quote: What good will it do to enter the Dutch credits from a Dutch movie released in Norway, when nobody who will ever own that release knows what the credits mean?
We already do that for Cast with role names. If those are only in one language, we don't translate them. I personally don't see Crew as being any different in that regard. 1. Today we have the ability to get the crew roles translated out to ALL users, why destroy that? 2. Cast is different because the roles also contain names 3. Every movie has a director, not every movie has 'Man on corner with dog peeing on his leg'. Crew roles are basically the same in every country. There is a director, a producer, a film editor, etc. | | | The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote: This has nothing to do with Japanese characters. It has to do with the words.
To take another example then, to get everything clear and to not have the character set distract you.
What good will it do to enter the Dutch credits from a Dutch movie released in Norway, when nobody who will ever own that release knows what the credits mean? I understand what you are saying. If I see a credit of 'John Smith Lyd Blandebatteri', if I don't speak that language, how do I know what that means? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: OOOOOO 1,0000 movies. So let's be real liberal and say what there are 10-20,000 such movies in the Online.....hmmm out of 481,000 titles, that's 2 to 4% of the total, doesn't sound like huge problem.
That simply is not a reason to avoid Open Credits. Moreover, as I explained earlier, this is not the only issue with Open Credits. There are also DVDP users whose English is limited or non-existent and who use translation files to be able to enjoy DVDP's features. Who do you think you are to deny these users the joys of DVD Profiler? |
| Registered: May 8, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,945 |
| Posted: | | | | Well,
Skip I am sorry, a handful of users opposed to a vast majority really is VERY unimportant. A successful program has to go with the majority of its users and not with a few people that DO NOT EVEN CONTRIBUTE.
You can be fully cetain that all those 1000nds of users that never visit those forums here, give a rats behind about assistants to secondary unit directors. Maybe you will find 40 people of thousands and thousands that would care about this. And right now as it seems most of those 40 people do not even contribute to the online database!
The only one that has a say about this is KEN anyways and I would bet alot of my cash that fully open credits will never happen. The reasons were perfectly explained by some users here, why it would be a übermess to deal with fully open credits.
And if there is a crowd that also has a saying than it is definitely the crowd that is contributing hundreds and hundreds of profiles to improve the database and not the ones that keep all their updates locally. Those people should not even allowed to have a saying on this matter. Reminds me of those people who complain about an elected president tho they did not even bother to vote.
Those few that support open credits, read the posts of reybr, dee1959jay, scotthm, hal9g, and the others AGAIN that have perfectly explained why this is just plain wrong!
Language barriers, way too much work, destruction of the credited as system and so much more.
cheers Donnie | | | www.tvmaze.com | | | Last edited: by DarklyNoon |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | We do...really reybr. Let's see the rules state, tolist Cast and crew exactly as they appear in the credits, not a translation. So if we are dealing with japanese, Cyrillic, Greek or some other character set that the program doesn't deal with......and if there is no On Screen translation of those character sets. So, are you really talking about a Rules problem from your own cultural(local) problem. I don't see any provision for a non-film translation. How many times have i seen this over here, a few, but a non-film related translation would be a technical violation of the rules. How would i view it personally...I don't know.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,506 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote: Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote: Quoting reybr:
Quote: What good will it do to enter the Dutch credits from a Dutch movie released in Norway, when nobody who will ever own that release knows what the credits mean?
We already do that for Cast with role names. If those are only in one language, we don't translate them. I personally don't see Crew as being any different in that regard.
That's a red herring. Most role names contain NAMES, which cannot be translated anyway. In Cast, this only becomes a problem for role names (usually for minor cast members) such as "barkeeper" and their non-English equivalents. In Crew, however, it makes the entire Crew section USELESS. I don't think it's a red herring. By wanting to translate one section but not another you're introducing inconsistency. I agree that names shouldn't be translated but if you look at 5035673010013 (UK Salò) all the cast is in Italian - Just an example, I know plenty do list mainly names. Besides, the point of people not understanding a language seems slightly moot when they'd have to know it in the first place to understand what to translate it into. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Donnie:
Give me a break it is not destruction of the Credited As system in any way, quite the opposite. That is simply a red herring, my friend. Not once will ever see me say anything other list waht you see On Screen, that is AS CREDITED by definition. Don't try to preach to me about the majority not with the way I have seen the majority screw up this program and repeatedly have taken away both usability and functionality in the name of the MAJORITY. NO, that is just wrong. Beware the tyranny of the majority. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 906 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
If I see a credit of 'John Smith Lyd Blandebatteri', if I don't speak that language, how do I know what that means? To be honest, if I saw 'Lyd Blandebatteri' in the credits, I would wonder what the guy that wrote the credits had been smoking that day This is an example of a 'Blandebatteri' Basically, something that mix hot and cold water (Maybe we should add Google translate to the list of unreliable sites together with IMDB and Wiki) Good to see that you understand my point though | | | The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity | | | Last edited: by reybr |
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote: We do...really reybr. Let's see the rules state, tolist Cast and crew exactly as they appear in the credits, not a translation. So if we are dealing with japanese, Cyrillic, Greek or some other character set that the program doesn't deal with......and if there is no On Screen translation of those character sets. So, are you really talking about a Rules problem from your own cultural(local) problem. I don't see any provision for a non-film translation. How many times have i seen this over here, a few, but a non-film related translation would be a technical violation of the rules. How would i view it personally...I don't know.
Skip Another red herring. For Cast you would use a romanised transcription (e.g. from subtitles for the movie), not a translation. For Crew it becomes a problem only if - God forbid - open credits were to be introduced. |
| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,018 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote: Besides, the point of people not understanding a language seems slightly moot when they'd have to know it in the first place to understand what to translate it into. Not as long as we can use subtitles. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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