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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 4 5 6  Previous   Next
Appears / Special Appearances By credit
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Who know, Martin , it could mean a lot of different things. Back in earlier days of Hollywood it could be something such as a Studio "borrowing" someone from another Studio. Butonce again, I am not willing to accept someone's ASSUMPTION. In all likelihood, it does mean what you think it does, but we should not make or acceppt someone's assumption that it does mean that given the ACTUAL FACTS. That's all I am saying, and I see what I consider to be a bunch of foolish people willing to accept assumptions or laziness, and the willingness to do so, will one day bite them right square on the tookus.

As I also said were my collection not in storage I would be trying to do exactly what i have described, toput it to rest and because I am only interested in accuracy, not Joe's assumption or guesses.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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"Special Appearance By" is a very common credit and is often listed in the opening credits which are often a combination of cast and crew.

Since they are not always clearly divided into cast and crew in the opening credits as they are in the closing credits, according to some here, ANY TIME we have a credit in the opening credits using "Special Appearance By", we are going to have to include a screen cap of the person in the film in order to include them in the cast listing.

After all, we cannot assume that people with that credit in the opening credits are cast.  They could very well be crew! 
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSnark
Registered: June 3, 2007
United States Posts: 333
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
"Special Appearance By" is a very common credit and is often listed in the opening credits which are often a combination of cast and crew.

Since they are not always clearly divided into cast and crew in the opening credits as they are in the closing credits, according to some here, ANY TIME we have a credit in the opening credits using "Special Appearance By", we are going to have to include a screen cap of the person in the film in order to include them in the cast listing.

After all, we cannot assume that people with that credit in the opening credits are cast.  They could very well be crew! 


We probably ought to get screen caps of the crew from the featurettes just in case.  Maybe when they said "Directed by" they meant someone who gave them directions to one of the set locations. 

Verifying data is all well and good, but the meaning of the words is clear.  If we have to start verifying what's actually in the credits for accuracy we'll never get anything contributed.  If you can come up with some evidence that the credits are wrong in this case then provide it.  Otherwise I see no valid reason to argue against it.
 Last edited: by Snark
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Hal:

Have you read what I said and actually comprehended it. Your comment favors assumption over accuracy. But lety me repeat it for YOU one more time. Provide a time code for just ONE of the people in that list, NOT ALL OF THEM, just ONE. I am not lazy, I don['t accept assumptions even my own, as I have said i suspect the assumption is correct, but I don't accept assumptions, laziness or "It's too hard" from anyone else either.

Skip 
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 4,596
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Quoting Snark:
Quote:
Otherwise I see no valid reason to argue against it.


Maybe...perchance...perhaps BECAUSE THEY ARE LISTED IN THE CREW CREDITS?   .
My WebGenDVD online Collection
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Snark:

The evidence IS that the data is within the Crew data not the cast data. OK, so if you want nto prove that it IS in fact Cast, then PROVE it. Don't try and pretend that data is something it is not just because you think you know something you cannot know. Your argument has no validity at all. It is not a subset of the cast data, it IS CREW DATA PERIOD. But nice attempt at subterfuge.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSnark
Registered: June 3, 2007
United States Posts: 333
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Snark:

The evidence IS that the data is within the Crew data not the cast data. OK, so if you want nto prove that it IS in fact Cast, then PROVE it. Don't try and pretend that data is something it is not just because you think you know something you cannot know. Your argument has no validity at all. It is not a subset of the cast data, it IS CREW DATA PERIOD. But nice attempt at subterfuge.

Skip


Er.... "Special Appearance by" It's english and I know how to read that quite well, thanks. 

They appeared, therefore they're cast. 

UNLESS we want to take the tack of verifying the validity of what's in the credits against the screen in all cases.
 Last edited: by Snark
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting goblinsdoitall:
Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
[...] I'm not arguing for the sake of this single film. I'm arguing for the sake of the system. I don't want this one example to force us to have to prove that cast credits are cast credits for the wide possibilities that are out there from what I've seen in film credits or to force us to prove that credited cast members are actually in the film.

OK, then we are talking of two different things, I was trying to answer Gigas question and give reasons why this special case should not be entered without further documentation.
You were talking about "special appearances" in general. And "in general" you are totally correct, it's just this special case that makes an exception.

This is not an exception. The role doesn't change its nature when positioned differently. It's the same role.

Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
These are not crew credits in the middle of crew credits. These are cast credits in the middle of crew credits. Their position in the credits does not make them crew since there are no crew roles listed. The role that's in the credits is an on-screen role. That makes it cast.[...]

Did I miss something here?
There aren't any roles given, all we have is a vague description of an "appearance", which you like to interpret as an on-screen appearance.

The role given is "special appearances by" and it's done as a group header. We see lots of group header roles. This is not unique. I like to interpret "special appearances by" to mean what it says in basic English rather than arguing that it could mean something that it has not yet been proven to mean in any other film. Take it for what it means and if you can prove it means something else, then there's an issue.

Quote:
And going back to my example of the "First Assistant Director" what makes you so sure that in a movie like "Get Shorty" the "FAD" may not also be a cast credit?
It's the positioning of this special credit.
It will be positionend where?
Correct, in the crew-section and not in the cast section.
Where exactly is the difference between an assumed on screen appearance of the "FAD" and an assumed on screen appearance of these "special appearances"? Remember obviously all of them are only known for crew-jobs!
So if you could give me only one plausible reason why someone should list on-screen "special appearances" in the middle of the crew section and not at the end of the cast section, where it would be expected, I'd give in. But plausible and case-specific please.

An FAD credit in a cast section would be a cast role and an FAD credit in a crew section would be a crew role. A "special appearance" role anywhere can only mean one thing unless you can show that it's ever meant anything other than what it means. For a specific example of separated cast credits, see my example above of The Nightmare Before Christmas. Are voice credits only cast if they're in the cast section? Do the words "character voices" take on a different meaning if they are place outside the cast credits as they are in The Nightmare Before Christmas?

Quote:
EDIT: I think I found a hint supporting the actual "on-screen-appearance", Paula Gregg seems to have two mentionings within the credits. One within the craftsmen-section and the "special appearance".
The same goes for Michael K. Budge who is supposed to be credited as "On Set Dresser".
Could someone who owns this movie please verify that?

As has been mentioned previously in this thread, the Farrelly brothers are known for using their friends in supporting roles. I've seen two reviews of the film which comment about how boring the commentary is because they spend a great deal of time noting the appearance of their friends throughout the movie. If I owned the film, the commentary is the first place I'd go to in order to settle the issue for this film for the holdouts.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
 Last edited: by m.cellophane
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
?
Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 3,830
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on the other hand pilots and stunt people get only credit in dvdprofiler when in the cast section and not when in the crew section?
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Hal:

Have you read what I said and actually comprehended it. Your comment favors assumption over accuracy. But lety me repeat it for YOU one more time. Provide a time code for just ONE of the people in that list, NOT ALL OF THEM, just ONE. I am not lazy, I don['t accept assumptions even my own, as I have said i suspect the assumption is correct, but I don't accept assumptions, laziness or "It's too hard" from anyone else either.

Skip 


Neither I, nor anyone else, is required to provide you with anything to justify a contribution.

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again.  Submit the change and let the screeners decide.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpdf256
PC, iOS and Android
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
One more time, Paul. FACT, the data is NOT a part of ANY cast data, it is part of the CREW data, do you understand this yet. I don't really care what you THINK you know or even what your basis is. The other FACT is that you, like Ja,mes have absolutely no basis with wehich to pretend that you KNOW that the filmmakers intended that as cast data, I have offered a way to determine that is based on ONLY a SINGLE member of the list. So untill you or someone else decides to document ONE person, I am not interested in your over active imagination, and should I see a Contribution without documentation then I will be forced to vote NO absolutely. I want a database that has a basis in REALITY and thus accuracy not someone's adled brain who imagines that they have the ability to divine what the filmmakers intent is.

You seem to be willing to accept almost anything as long as you can provide adequate spin  to support your claim, there is more than enough garbage listed elsewhere on the internet. We have seen the results of users who make up data to suit themselves in other places. Let's try and make this something better shall we, that is my goal and always has been. And since you decided tro refer to my not Contributing any longer, (1) I don't see much of anything from you either and you can credit yourself a being ONE of the reasons I don't, one of several, and it is a shame that a few bad apples have spoiled it for everybody.

Skip...OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Skip, you don't see my submissions because you don't get out much. You only buy "Hollywood" films. You only buy films in English. I don't work on the profiles for "Big Name" films, lots of people do that. I add things to the database for smaller films, for films from Spain, France, Japan, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Brazil, etc.

If my calling you out for some of the crazy things you claim in the forums has caused you to stop contributing to the database I am sorry. I for one have never asked you to stop contributing, but I have asked you to be nicer to new users and to people that would like to see changes to the rules. You insult others so often that I thought that was how you liked it!
Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Paul:

Not the calling out. Your overall attitude and insulting behavior, but like I said you aren't alone.

Your comment shows me just how little you understand me, paul and I mean that seriously.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
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Thanks to Giga!
There is finally if not a proof then at least a very strong indicator that even I can accept.
There are two credits for Paula Gregg and Michael K. Budge each with their usual crew job and as "special appearance".
Now this only makes sense if the "special appearance" is totally different from the odd crew job, means an on screen appearance. I'd still prefer a screenshot but I think that this is the best we will get.

Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
time index 1:45:49 On-Set-Dresser...Michael K. Budge
time index 1:46:52 special apperances credit: (posted screenshot)
time index 1:47:23 Craft Service... Paula A. Gregg
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


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