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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not if it could be proved otherwise. I have known several women to do it. to me it is just about as normal as dropping the maiden name or making it a double last name. I think as long as it can be proven it should be done right. If it can't be proven there needs to be a straight forward starting point for all names I know I for one half the time have no idea if what I am looking at is a maiden name or a middle name as people can use a LOT of weird sounding names for first and middle that could easily be confused for a maiden name. So to me it makes much more sense to go with 1/2/3 unless you can prove it to be different. Then just document the correct parsing to fix it. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
It has no bearing on this case because the rules tell us what to do and obviously the entries you were correcting were incorrect per the rules to begin with You reproach me reading what I want, but you do the same thing. I answered to T!M who spoke of parsing problems. And I said that there were not so many parsing problems since most of errors existing in the online (it's a fact...) are concerning articles and are not a problem to solve. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote:
Agrare is correct. I was suggesting for this particular case only. Sorry to have misunderstood you. I thought you answered to T!M who wanted a simple rule for parsing. So in this case you just gave your personal opinion, which I would follow if this actress was American. As she seems to be English, I doubt you choose the correct parsing, but of course, without any proof, anybody may be right or wrong. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | So her own phone number listing, the surname of her son and the existing database entries are not evidence one way or the other? There is no evidence at all that it is 1/2/3. | | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Nope, grave, not at all, for one thing he is an individual and may handle his name in a different from her. I consider the phonelisting to be among the weakest forms of documentation.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
.. I know I for one half the time have no idea if what I am looking at is a maiden name or a middle name as people can use a LOT of weird sounding names for first and middle that could easily be confused for a maiden name... I understand this interrogation for American actresses. But outside US, middle names are rare, or even do not exist. So if the actress is not from US, you have more "chance" to be correct when parsing A//BC. I agree that it's better if you can document it. | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: No Personal Attacks | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
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| Registered: September 29, 2008 | | Posts: 384 |
| | Posted: | | | | Another example why we need a different linking system....and some local options for display of names. Make names universally link and the ability to choose your default display name locally and this problem disappears. I'm in agreement with T!M though in that it's impossible to have the community completely agree even on what is "correct", therefore, in my opinion, the only solution that will make everyone happy is if there is a simple way of linking all variations of parsing and an ability to pick what you want locally as the "display name". Then whether Kate Bowes Renna was submitted as "K/B/R" or "K//BR" wouldn't matter as it would link regardless, and those who wanted it to sort and display one way or the other locally would be free to do so.  | | | | "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire | | | | Last edited: by Vittra |
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| Registered: April 7, 2007 | | Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: No Personal Attacks | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
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| Registered: May 22, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Agrare:
Quote:
It has no bearing on this case because the rules tell us what to do and obviously the entries you were correcting were incorrect per the rules to begin with
You reproach me reading what I want, but you do the same thing. I answered to T!M who spoke of parsing problems. And I said that there were not so many parsing problems since most of errors existing in the online (it's a fact...) are concerning articles and are not a problem to solve. And I agree that those article errors are not a problem to solve. But that's not what T!m was saying. He said that to determine the "correct" parsing for names such as Kate Bowes Renna. if we have 2 entries for her: Kate\\Bowes Renna and Kate\Bowes\Renna without solid documentation you may think the first is correct but someone else may think the second is correct. So it's initial state should be a simple 1\2\3 parsing unless\until clear cut evidence can be given to show otherwise. as the links below from you and woodg show it doesn't appear to be clear cut http://wwwdb.oscars.org:8100/servlet/impc.NameCredits?name_in=RENNA,~KATE~BOWEShttp://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/individual/1113025Interestingly if you google Kate Bowes Renna this thread is the 9th listing -Agrare | | | | Last edited: by Agrare |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | ANY sort of linking system which is based in any way upon user data input is doomed to fail. Because all users have to follow the rules for the results to be turned out correctly. Else we get GIGO every time. The attitude of users relative to this concept is the biggest failing in terms of the CLT functionality. The only way the linking system will ever work properly is via simple association, which is a local issue only, the only thing we would want to be able to do is share the associations The function is not otherwise needed relative to the online since there is no Actor search in the Online, at least to date, but perhaps, as I have noted before that ken has something in mind. But even then i would argue that simple association is better than what we have now, because it is not dependent on user input per se.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: April 7, 2007 | | Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
So to me it makes much more sense to go with 1/2/3 unless you can prove it to be different. Then just document the correct parsing to fix it. It is far far far more likely to be the opposite. This is only the case in the US which is only 5% of the worlds population and produces less than 20% of all films. |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
So it's initial state should be a simple 1\2\3 parsing unless\until clear cut evidence can be given to show otherwise. Why initial state would be 1/2/3 and not 1//23 ? In fact, I think (and I do so for my local), that if the actor/actress is American, default parsing is 1/2/3, and if he/she is not American, default parsing should be 1//23. Though it can keep some errors, it has more chances to be the correct decision. edit : sorry Graveworm. You were faster to say the same thing... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: September 29, 2008 | | Posts: 384 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
ANY sort of linking system which is based in any way upon user data input is doomed to fail. Because all users have to follow the rules for the results to be turned out correctly. Else we get GIGO every time. The attitude of users relative to this concept is the biggest failing in terms of the CLT functionality. The only way the linking system will ever work properly is via simple association, which is a local issue only, the only thing we would want to be able to do is share the associations The function is not otherwise needed relative to the online since there is no Actor search in the Online, at least to date, but perhaps, as I have noted before that ken has something in mind. But even then i would argue that simple association is better than what we have now, because it is not dependent on user input per se.
Skip 100% agree with you Skip! Wait...where am I? *Twilight Zone music plays*  Any system such as the one we have now that relies so heavily on everyone doing the same things will fail and is failing. You association method is exactly what I'm suggesting. The ability to "associate" K/B/R with K//BR once and forever have them link locally would be fantastic.  | | | | "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire | | | | Last edited: by Vittra |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Graveworm: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
So to me it makes much more sense to go with 1/2/3 unless you can prove it to be different. Then just document the correct parsing to fix it.
It is far far far more likely to be the opposite. This is only the case in the US which is only 5% of the worlds population and produces less than 20% of all films. Irrelevant comment, Grave. Utterly meaningless, as i have said before the program is based in the United states, were it based in Berlin I would not be pissing and moaning about following German rules.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Agrare:
Quote:
So it's initial state should be a simple 1\2\3 parsing unless\until clear cut evidence can be given to show otherwise.
Why initial state would be 1/2/3 and not 1//23 ?
In fact, I think (and I do so for my local), that if the actor/actress is American, default parsing is 1/2/3, and if he/she is not American, default parsing should be 1//23. Though it can keep some errors, it has more chances to be the correct decision.
edit : sorry Graveworm. You were faster to say the same thing... Because that was the default that was settled upon, yves. Why use 1//23...just to make YOU happy. ROFL Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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