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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Uncredited or Credited As? |
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| Registered: July 7, 2007 |  Posts: 284 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting RaymondG:
Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
If the joke credit for fictional actress "Ida Flammerbaum" playing Herself translates to
"Sandra Bullock [Ida Flammenbaum] as Herself is correct",
even if Sandra Bullock is not at all mentioned in the credits (but it can be documented),
then I daresay that the credit for the "?" entity playing a certain role should translate to
Actor's Name [?] as Role
as long as you can document that Actor actually plays that role.
Excactly.
So far, so good. 
Quote:
Only problem I see is that NO proof has been produced to back up this assumption thusfar.
Linking a person to a "?" credit can surely only be done within the confinements of the current movie as the "?" would be meaningless in a greater scope. Since there is no direct evidence (thusfar) of a link between actor and ? it is not possible to link the role to an actor. It's really as simple as an equasion with 2 unknown variables.
What about the references provided by ninehours, like
http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/bond-villains/anthony-dawson2
and others? Excuse moi. Didn't see the linkages you refer to here. Seems perfectly legitimate proof a.f.a.i.k only it refers to Ernst Stavro Blofeld, not Ernst Blofeld but I think the assumption can be made that the same role is being addressed  | | | My DVD's
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive? |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
My guess is that, since it is a single credit, it should apply to a single person.
But we do split other credits for two persons. Remember Roderick Jaynes which we split into Joel Coen and Ethan Coen. Therefore we could split "?" into body and voice as well. That was my stance on it as well. Also I have seen multiple credits where the number of role names means we need a second line - mainly on animations, or where a band has been credited and a person has broken it down to band members, so I don't agree that single credit -> single person. Edit: there was also mention earlier of twins only getting one credit. Also, now that Hal's explained his opinion I see where he's coming from. The reason I disagree with it is because he's assuming the "?" only refers to the Blofeld we see, why can't it refer to the Blofeld we hear as well? | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Also, now that Hal's explained his opinion I see where he's coming from. The reason I disagree with it is because he's assuming the "?" only refers to the Blofeld we see, why can't it refer to the Blofeld we hear as well? Only because the standard for a "voice" credit is that it will be listed that way in the actual film credits, e.g., "Actor Name as The Voice of Rolename", or something similar (except perhaps in animated films, which this isn't). There is absolutely no indication on the screen that this is a "voice" credit. The on screen credit is not "Voice of Ernst Blofeld ?". From my perspective, you are making an assumption that is not supported by the actual on screen credit. I have no problem with entering the voice credit as uncredited with the proper documentation. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Also, now that Hal's explained his opinion I see where he's coming from. The reason I disagree with it is because he's assuming the "?" only refers to the Blofeld we see, why can't it refer to the Blofeld we hear as well?
Only because the standard for a "voice" credit is that it will be listed that way in the actual film credits, e.g., "Actor Name as The Voice of Rolename", or something similar (except perhaps in animated films, which this isn't).
There is absolutely no indication on the screen that this is a "voice" credit. The on screen credit is not "Voice of Ernst Blofeld ?".
From my perspective, you are making an assumption that is not supported by the actual on screen credit.
I have no problem with entering the voice credit as uncredited with the proper documentation. I think Hal has a point here. Look at the Empire Strikes Back DVD. If I remember correctly, James Earl Jones is not credited as the voice of Darth Vader. There isn't a cast entry for ? as the voice of Blofeld, so I think the screen actor should be credited with the Credited As [?], and the voice actor would be uncredited. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
I think Hal has a point here. Look at the Empire Strikes Back DVD. If I remember correctly, James Earl Jones is not credited as the voice of Darth Vader. I know this is off topic but, if he isn't, he should be as it is a 'voice only role'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Only because the standard for a "voice" credit is that it will be listed that way in the actual film credits, e.g., "Actor Name as The Voice of Rolename", or something similar (except perhaps in animated films, which this isn't). While we can often see a "voice of" credit, there is no such standard in the industry. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Oh it is definitely not an industry standard... I forget what movie it was now... but a while back ago the credits listed a cast member only as Dispatcher... and in the movie you only ever hear the dispatcher over the radio. There was no indication it was a voice only role in the credits. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Only because the standard for a "voice" credit is that it will be listed that way in the actual film credits, e.g., "Actor Name as The Voice of Rolename", or something similar (except perhaps in animated films, which this isn't). I agree with the others, there is no standard for voice only roles. And even if there were, this is a very non-standard credit! In fact, I can't think of any other occurence where two people have been involved in the performance of a role, but a fake "single" credit has been used. Usually one of the people is credited and the other isn't - in which case I would use your suggestion. |
| | Registered: October 6, 2008 | | Posts: 1,932 |
| | Posted: | | | | IIRC, in "Oliver!", Oliver Twist's singing voice was provided by an uncredited girl. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Oh it is definitely not an industry standard... I forget what movie it was now... but a while back ago the credits listed a cast member only as Dispatcher... and in the movie you only ever hear the dispatcher over the radio. There was no indication it was a voice only role in the credits. Another example of this that popped in my mind... but I can actually name it this time. Every single episode of The Dukes of Hazzard lists Waylon Jennings only as "The Balladeer". Which was no more then he sang the theme song and was the narrator of the show. But there was no indication in the credits it was voice only. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CalebAndCo: Quote:
IIRC, in "Oliver!", Oliver Twist's singing voice was provided by an uncredited girl. You are correct about this. There was a documentary with the cast a few years back & they interviewed her as well. Quite a few people I know were shocked to discover it wasn't Mark Lester singing! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Only because the standard for a "voice" credit is that it will be listed that way in the actual film credits, e.g., "Actor Name as The Voice of Rolename", or something similar (except perhaps in animated films, which this isn't).
While we can often see a "voice of" credit, there is no such standard in the industry. I never said there weren't exceptions. There are exceptions to everything, and I had no doubt that several here would instantly jump on me with them. Regardless of the exceptions, more often than not, a voice credit is in fact credited as such in a non-animated film. The on screen credit gives absolutely no indication that it is for the voice and in fact, anyone entering this credit strictly from the on screen credits, knowing absolutely nothing more, would have to enter it as "? as Ernst Blofeld"....period. No uncredited flag whatsoever, because the credit does appear on screen. Identifying the face of Ernst Blofeld and entering that name as the Common Name, does not change the fact that the credit still appeared on the screen, so it cannot be (uncredited). In my mind, any interpretation that the single credit is referring to two different individuals is nothing more than speculation on your part and should remain local. The on screen data does not support that at all. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
(...) Identifying the face of Ernst Blofeld (...) Is Blofeld's face seen in this film? I thought this is one of the Bond film's where we can only see his lap with the cat and his hand. This is one of the reasons why I think that the "?" credit is meant to be for the body and the voice. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | So the same people who were demanding that we credit llamas are now insisting that "?" is not a credit when it's clearly associated with a role? Incredible. | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Gard:
I was one of the llama supporters if they are credited and the ? is the credit, there is NO name associated with it in the film's credits. Thus any attempt to link through the cast list becomes FICTIONAL data, unless it is done through (uncredited). So don't try and call me inconsistent, I am consistent, but there are plenty of users here who are not and often make judgements not based on the data, but on whether or not they LIKE the particular data in question, like the possessives. The data is there but some want to IMAGINE that it is not...because they don't like it and can't figure out how to cope with it. This is no different, users wanting not based on a logicalk rationale, but because they like or don't like, and they always wind up screwing things up and always will until they learn to deal ONLY with the data and not bring imagination, hallucination, like/dislike or preference to the game.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | On what basis are you saying that "?" is not a valid name? How many characters does it have to contain before it becomes a name? That's your personal interpretation of the data, using cultural preferences.
I look at the credits and see two pieces of data: a role name: "Ernst Blofeld", and a cast name: "?", just like any other credit.
Now we know that "?" isn't the actor's most common name, therefore we use "credited as" to show this. And as in this case two actors played the role we do it twice. Simple.
@RHo,
no we don't see Blofeld's face. I don't believe we see a face until Donald Pleasence in You Only Live Twice. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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