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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 3 4 5 6 7 8  Previous   Next
Genres
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantKrikarian
cool that never fades...
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 291
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Quoting richierich:
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Quoting Tomricci:
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Stand-Up, Film Noir, Gay Themed (people keep listing this as special interest which it is not), Short Subject,


What does it mean gay-themed? Why is that a genre??


really. special interest definitely doesn't apply, but if you want gay-themed then you're gonna have to add straight-themed as well...

put those you're so confused about under drama and comedy like i do. they'll be quite comfortable there.

krik (oy aye aye!!!)
"Vampirism is still not a disease, Julia. Vampires are the living dead...dead...dead..."
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantbbursiek
Registered: March 20, 2007
United States Posts: 262
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Spoof/Satire - i.e. Naked Gun, Date Movie, Hot Shots

Crime

Mystery (maybe combine with crime?)

Legal/Courtroom -- for courtroom heavy films - A Few Good Men, A Civil Action

Military -- for all of the movies involving the military where war isn't applicable - i.e. The General's Daughter, A Few Good Men, High Crimes

History -- for movies based on real events

I can't come up with a good one word suggestion for another area -- this would be films like Click or Groundhog Day other than fantasy (I think fantasy should be Lord of the Rings etc.) or maybe a new one for the Lord of the Rings type films instead?

Animals -- for movies like K-9, Turner & Hooch, Gorillas in the Mist

Many other good ideas were submitted --- in particular Biopic & Erotic were good ideas

I know this is a long list and I agree we should only add a few to the list.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting bbursiek:
Quote:
Spoof/Satire - i.e. Naked Gun, Date Movie, Hot Shots

Crime

Mystery (maybe combine with crime?)

Legal/Courtroom -- for courtroom heavy films - A Few Good Men, A Civil Action

Military -- for all of the movies involving the military where war isn't applicable - i.e. The General's Daughter, A Few Good Men, High Crimes

History -- for movies based on real events


I can't come up with a good one word suggestion for another area -- this would be films like Click or Groundhog Day other than fantasy (I think fantasy should be Lord of the Rings etc.) or maybe a new one for the Lord of the Rings type films instead?

Animals -- for movies like K-9, Turner & Hooch, Gorillas in the Mist

Many other good ideas were submitted --- in particular Biopic & Erotic were good ideas

I know this is a long list and I agree we should only add a few to the list.


Not to be general but a lot of this seems to sub-genre data, which I would suggest is best handled via Tags
Spoof/Satire=Comedy
Legal/Courtroom=Typically Drama, perhaps Suspense/Thriller

History, I like it but I would probably call it Historical

Military---Maybe
Animals--Maybe but seems more like a sub-genre.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 343
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Quoting bbursiek:
Quote:
I can't come up with a good one word suggestion for another area -- this would be films like Click or Groundhog Day other than fantasy (I think fantasy should be Lord of the Rings etc.) or maybe a new one for the Lord of the Rings type films instead?


Fantasy is correct for those sorts of films. Also applies to ones like Billy Liar and Amelie, where dream sequences play a big part. It's a wide genre; it covers all these, Lord of the Rings, and stuff like Spider-Man too, so it can get confusing. King Kong is currently set to Action / Adventure, but I really hope a lost world ruled by a giant monkey is fantasy! 

Animals I don't agree with. You'd simply highlight films with a strong animal theme, but that doesn't make it a genre. That's one for the tags.
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

 Last edited: by JonM
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 879
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Quoting JonM:
Quote:
Fantasy is correct for those sorts of films. Also applies to ones like Billy Liar and Amelie, where dream sequences play a big part. It's a wide genre; it covers all these, Lord of the Rings, and stuff like Spider-Man too, so it can get confusing. King Kong is currently set to Action / Adventure, but I really hope a lost world ruled by a giant monkey is fantasy!


I don't know, I just don't see why anything unrealistic/impossible or any alternate reality has to be "Fantasy". Of course the word fantasy fits those, but imho the genre Fantasy doesn't. At least i haven't seen it used that way in any publications or genre definitions...

Also don't forget that there's another genre fitting fantasy/fictional settings: Science-Fiction
- Jan
 Last edited: by hydr0x
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 343
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Quoting hydr0x:
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I don't know, I just don't see why anything unrealistic/impossible or any alternate reality has to be "Fantasy". Of course the word fantasy fits those, but imho the genre Fantasy doesn't. At least i haven't seen it used that way in any publications or genre definitions...

Also don't forget that there's another genre fitting fantasy/fictional settings: Science-Fiction


Stories like LoTR or Narnia were described as "fantastic" or "fantasy" when they were first published because of the definition of the word, yours ("Anything unrealistic/impossible") or Oxford ("when extravagant or visionary; mental image; fantastic design; whimsical speculation"). We shouldn't strip the word of it's definition just because those stories are so well defined.

Also, Science Fiction most certainly does not cover the same area. Science Fiction and Horror are both born from Fantasy, but have specific elements that separate them, and those should continue to be observed.

To continue my previous examples, Spider-Man could make it as Science Fiction although the key elements of the story focus on the 'fantasy' result of current science, rather than science itself. But King Kong definitely hasn't got a single thread of Sci-Fi. It could be horror, but it would be misleading to mark it as such.

The core problem is as it has always been. Genre in strict terms is not a personal interpretation and is too limiting for use in a database like this. Fantasy is a wide genre to filter on by itself (LotR appearing in the same list as Amelie!), so you have to rely on sub-genres. Which will usually not be genres at all, but mere personal descriptions.

That's why a keywords field would be at the top of my wishlist for Profiler. Use genre as it should be, then add a hundred more descriptions if you like, but keep the two distinct.
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
Also don't forget that there's another genre fitting fantasy/fictional settings: Science-Fiction


SciFi explanes the fiction with Science, Fantasy doesnt. Totally diffrent genres.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 879
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Quoting JonM:
Quote:
Also, Science Fiction most certainly does not cover the same area.


I never said it does, all I'm saying is that the existence of genres like Science-Fiction and Horror which you mentioned does already show that the genre Fantasy is not used in it's broadest sense as if it was those genres would only exist as sub-genres of them. Of course it's obvious that the exact definition is different for each individual but I'm pretty sure the "anything with fictional content or plot" definition wouldn't get a majority in a vote

By the way, Amelie might not even fit that broad fantasy definition as one could argue that every piece of fiction in that movie is just her imagination and dreams and thus not actually fictional as dreams are real
- Jan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 879
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Quoting whispering:
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
Also don't forget that there's another genre fitting fantasy/fictional settings: Science-Fiction


SciFi explanes the fiction with Science, Fantasy doesnt. Totally diffrent genres.


BOTH genres cover a fictional setting, that's all I'm saying. And that alone contradicts his broad "fiction content = fantasy" definition
- Jan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 343
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Quoting hydr0x:
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I never said it does, all I'm saying is that the existence of genres like Science-Fiction and Horror which you mentioned does already show that the genre Fantasy is not used in it's broadest sense as if it was those genres would only exist as sub-genres of them. Of course it's obvious that the exact definition is different for each individual but I'm pretty sure the "anything with fictional content or plot" definition wouldn't get a majority in a vote

By the way, Amelie might not even fit that broad fantasy definition as one could argue that every piece of fiction in that movie is just her imagination and dreams and thus not actually fictional as dreams are real


No, I'm sorry, that's still off!  Horror is fantasy in a strict sense, but so well defined as a genre that it's thought of first. Same with sci-fi, and btw, I think Whisperings definition is spot on. In other words, Fantasy is used in the strictest sense, when specific elements are not presented; exactly the same the same with Drama.

While you could argue fairly that every single performance ever done is dramatic, it does have it's place: 'In the Bedroom' is a drama, add irony it becomes a comedy drama like 'Sideways'. Replace the irony with slapstick and it's just comedy.

And Amelie is fantasy because we see the main character having substantial conversations with stuffed toys, and photographs discussing her future. If you don't see those as fantasy elements, I want a pint of whatever you're on! 

BTW, when did I ever say that "fiction content = fantasy"? Re-read my earlier post where I quoted the Oxford definition. Another way of putting it is: "fantasy is fiction on drugs"... 
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

 Last edited: by JonM
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 879
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Quoting JonM:
Quote:

And Amelie is fantasy because we see the main character having substantial conversations with stuffed toys, and photographs discussing her future. If you don't see those as fantasy elements, I want a pint of whatever you're on! 


ehm no, we don't see her doing it, we see her thinking she's doing it
- Jan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 343
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Quoting hydr0x:
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ehm no, we don't see her doing it, we see her thinking she's doing it


It would be the same thing because pure drama would not present her feelings so literally, or bathe the blind man in light to show how happy he is. Anyway, she was asleep when the pictures were having a chat! 
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVibroCount
The Truth is Silly Putty
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 5,635
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All science fiction is fantasy.

Fantasy is a far broader genre than science fiction, or speculative fiction or alternate universe fiction...

There are many, many sub-genres of fantasy: heroic fantasy, sword and sorcery, magic realism, as well as the SF genres, and still more.

To separate general fiction from fantasy is not always easy, because the slightest implausibility can take a standard novel into a fantasy world.

There are those who believe "Slaughterhouse Five" is not a work of science fiction, because when Billy Pilgrim becomes unstuck in time, it is all in his mind, not the reality of the setting.

So, all science fiction is fantasy, but not all fantasy (in fact very little of it) is science fiction.
If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.

Cliff
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 343
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Quoting VibroCount:
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Fantasy is a far broader genre than science fiction, or speculative fiction or alternate universe fiction...

There are many, many sub-genres of fantasy: heroic fantasy, sword and sorcery, magic realism, as well as the SF genres, and still more.


This is why I have a problem with this field. All of those are relevant, but they are not genres, sub or otherwise; they are descriptions. In a strict sense of genre, it is simply fantasy, regardless of content.

Quote:
To separate general fiction from fantasy is not always easy, because the slightest implausibility can take a standard novel into a fantasy world.


It has to be far more than slight though to consider applying any genre. Star Wars being so reliant on space age technology, with laser battles is solid sci-fi, but it's magical element with the Force powers and characters coming back from the dead make a good case for it being sci-fantasy. Plus it starts with its own version of a fairytale "Once upon a time".

Quote:
There are those who believe "Slaughterhouse Five" is not a work of science fiction, because when Billy Pilgrim becomes unstuck in time, it is all in his mind, not the reality of the setting.

So, all science fiction is fantasy, but not all fantasy (in fact very little of it) is science fiction.


Much like Donnie Darko. The Director's Cut introduced actual time travel theories, letting, as Whispering said, science explain the story. The original was far more ambiguous and allowed the possibility that Donnie was simply mad.
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

 Last edited: by JonM
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
Sushi Annihilator
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 2,217
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Quoting Squirrelecto:
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If we got rid of Foreign then for the sake of consistency if nothing else we should really lose Classic as well.

I like it!

And as nobody has opened the can of worms yet: What about Animation and Anime?

They are both, well, descriptions on how the film was made. They are no more a genre in themself as "Black and White" or "Silent-Film"

Could/should/would there any way to introduce a new category like "Technical Specs" with things like Animation, Black/White or Color, Silent, Stereoskopic, Holoprojectio... okay I'm 20 years off ... 

E.g. the question for the (unneccessary in my opion) Genre "Hentai" at the beginning would be easily covert. It's Genre "Adult", Specs "Animation" and Country of Origing "Japan"


cya, Mithi
Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgardibolt
digitally Obsessed
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,414
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Eh, if I'm looking for anime I don't want to have to wade through Disney titles.  I like keeping them separate.
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
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