I am updating "Audition" UPC 031398-178972 and ran into an issue relevant to this thread.

What would you do with the following:

Executive Producer:
             
    Current profile: Toyoyuki Yokohama

    On screen: To Yo Yuki Yokohama  (there are clear and distinct spaces between these words).
   
    Invelos CLT: Toyoyuki Yokohama > 20 titles (60 profiles) vs To Yo Yuki Yokohama 0 titles (0 profiles).

How I would submit this change according to my understanding of the rules. And, without any understanding of the issues brought up in this thread:

    Toyoyuki Yokohama [To Yo Yuki Yokohama}.

Quoting Taro:

Quote:
Indeed, the main problem I had with profiling Korean names, is that both parsings:
X/Y/Z
and
XY//Z
present the data exactly as it is credited on-screen. Parsing method one takes Y as a middle name while parsing method two takes XY as a first name and no middle name. So I wasn't sure which is a valid input method or perhaps both were ...?



Yes, Yun Young Park is just a fictious example but I do have a concrete example in mind, albeit not 100% Asian since it's an actor with a mixed name. Perhaps this will make it easier to discuss the issue:
Daniel Dae Kim (appears in LOST, among others)

When I use CLT, I find:
"daniel dae kim" is credited in the following 474 titles (1068 profiles)
However, I can't see from the CLT if all profiles are parsed as Daniel/Dae/Kim or Daniel Dae//Kim or something else (unless I am missing some CLT functionality or something  )

I then Used NiceGuys' Name Variant tool (very handy by the way) and came up with this result from my local database (which is copy-paste of the online for those profiles) :
27 profiles with Daniel/Dae/Kim
2 profiles with Daniel//Dae Kim
Anyone have an idea if both are acceptable or if one of the two should be corrected?

So, now it looks like you are attempting to apply some sort of cultural Rule to an acotor who has very clearly Angicized his name, Taro. I don't think Daniel is a Korean or any other Asian Name.  So are you ASSUMING something that you should NOT. Again as I have said numerous times, the key lies in the documentation, regardless of culture I will ALWAYS say start with the default 1/2/3,, if you document something else then fine, but do NOT make assumptions, provide valid documentation to support your opinion and i don't believe that you should have any problem. If, however, it is based on some sort of an assumption then it should be voted NO. Very simple.

Skip

Quoting Taro:

Quote:
Yes, Yun Young Park is just a fictious example but I do have a concrete example in mind, albeit not 100% Asian since it's an actor with a mixed name. Perhaps this will make it easier to discuss the issue:
Daniel Dae Kim (appears in LOST, among others)

When I use CLT, I find:
"daniel dae kim" is credited in the following 474 titles (1068 profiles)
However, I can't see from the CLT if all profiles are parsed as Daniel/Dae/Kim or Daniel Dae//Kim or something else (unless I am missing some CLT functionality or something  )

I then Used NiceGuys' Name Variant tool (very handy by the way) and came up with this result from my local database (which is copy-paste of the online for those profiles) :
27 profiles with Daniel/Dae/Kim
2 profiles with Daniel//Dae Kim
Anyone have an idea if both are acceptable or if one of the two should be corrected?

I could not find anything, other than this Wikipedia explanation.  It states that, "Most Chinese Americans move their Chinese given name (transliterated into the Latin alphabet) to the middle name position, and use an English first name, e.g. James Chu-yu Soong, Jerry Chih-Yuan Yang, and Michelle Wingshan Kwan."

Based on that alone, because I am not expert, I would say 'Daniel/Dae/Kim' is the correct parsing.

To clarify: I understand this is an open issue as far as the rules are concerned, but the problem is we have names to enter now. What we should be doing is working out a defacto standard that meets the following criteria:

[li]Based on clearly stated criteria
As easy as is practical to figure out correct parsing
works, meaning names sort and display correctly
Can be easily converted if the program ever handles this better.[/li]

I believe my suggestion meets most of these criteria. Number 2 is tricky, but that will be the case with any system that meets the other criteria (ie not entering in a single field). If anyone has a better idea, please clearly explain what it is and why it is better.

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

Quote:
To clarify: I understand this is an open issue as far as the rules are concerned, but the problem is we have names to enter now. What we should be doing is working out a defacto standard that meets the following criteria:

[li]Based on clearly stated criteria
As easy as is practical to figure out correct parsing
works, meaning names sort and display correctly
Can be easily converted if the program ever handles this better.[/li]

I believe my suggestion meets most of these criteria. Number 2 is tricky, but that will be the case with any system that meets the other criteria (ie not entering in a single field). If anyone has a better idea, please clearly explain what it is and why it is better.

What suggestion, Ace? I don't see one.

And there you go again making a vague reference to sorting and displaying properly. What does sorting properly mean? Let us take an obvious example HBC, if they were ALL listed as H/B/C and you search under C guess what you will find, all sorted properly, oh...we some credits which say HB-C, fine CLT and guess what the Cs STILL sort properly and together. I hope you will pardon me I have never and still don't comprehend the brouhaha over 'proper' parsing. What it invariably leads to everytime, is people making improper conclusions based upon their culture. I will us a hypothetical name but the argument that was presented remains the same. This happened to be a German user and hew trying parse MTM as M//TM. Whe I offered him a friendly correction, he apologized and was just assuming based on the European method of naming. This is culture based and just does not necessarily or automatically apply to a non-Euro actor.

Thus I believe instead of dealing with culture, at all. We use the simple default I have described for four years, it is simply based on the data presented. Then if someone can present documentation we can ALWAYS implement whatever standard should be applied to go along with such documentation.

This is a simple, logical and rational solution and NO ONE has ever suggested anything better.

Skip

Exactly... unless there is a standard coming from Invelos themselves... there  is no way we can enforce it.

Quoting Kathy:

Quote:
I am updating "Audition" UPC 031398-178972 and ran into an issue relevant to this thread.

What would you do with the following:

Executive Producer:
             
    Current profile: Toyoyuki Yokohama

    On screen: To Yo Yuki Yokohama  (there are clear and distinct spaces between these words).
   
    Invelos CLT: Toyoyuki Yokohama > 20 titles (60 profiles) vs To Yo Yuki Yokohama 0 titles (0 profiles).

How I would submit this change according to my understanding of the rules. And, without any understanding of the issues brought up in this thread:

    Toyoyuki Yokohama [To Yo Yuki Yokohama}.

Sorry to butt in here but I happen to know a few things about Japanese names.
First thing of note is that the name To Yo Yuki is non-existant in Japanese.

If the (western) credits show To Yo Yuki (with clear spaces), then I would indeed use the credited as feature and input him as Toyoyuki Yokohama [To Yo Yuki Yokohama]

However, if there are original Japanese credits on-screen and they are subtitled in English, in that case I would simply leave it as Toyoyuki Yokohama, as that will be the way the Japanese will have entered those credits. If you're not sure about the Japanese credits, feel free to post a screenshot and I'll gladly help you with a correct romanization.

Basically, whenever there are both Japanese and English credits for a Japanese movie, I tend to use the Japanese credits, seeing as the English ones tend to ommit important cast and crew members as well as contain spelling errors.

Skip,

in Hong Kong and Korea middle names do not exist, they never did, they never will.
So it is kind of obvious that the middle name ALWAYS will be blank with Hong Kong and Korean actors.

cheers
Donnie