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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
not accordingly to Daddy DVD?
Daddy DVD's opinion is: no prevailation, 1st or the 2nd or the 3rd option, and is updating the profiles so. I certainly haven't seen him do that (look, Martin: I'm actually defending you!  ). The rules are very specific about this: Quote:
Obtain the rating details in order of preference from:
- DVD case, usually on the bottom rear
- Rating page displayed on-screen
- Filmratings.com, or the equivalent region-specific ratings information website So only if there's nothing on the case or on the screen can we move on to the 3rd option, the region-specific ratings information website. That means that whatever's on the cover will ALWAYS prevail. Only when options #1 and #2 don't show any rating details, then you can go to kijkwijzer.nl to retrieve them from there. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | . | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
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| Registered: July 7, 2007 | | Posts: 284 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ratingsystem and ratingdetails are intertwined entities. Ratingsystem and ratingdetails have a hierarchical relationship where the details refine the rating. We cannot see one apart from the other; it's like the age-old example of order + orderlines; they belong together and orderlines have NO reference or meaning when the order has gone.
That means we cannot add details from system 1 to a movie to which system 2 has been applied. As was said before me: we cannot presume to know why a movie was rated'12' or '16' in the old ratingsystem and we can definitely not mix and match just to fill up the fields, however tempting it may be.
Even more, what do you want to do when the ratings of the two systems do not match anymore?(rating tuned down from 16 to 12 for example)? | | | My DVD's
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive? | | | | Last edited: by RaymondG |
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| Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RaymondG: Quote:
Ratingsystem and ratingdetails are intertwined entities. Ratingsystem and ratingdetails have a hierarchical relationship where the details refine the rating. We cannot see one apart from the other; it's like the age-old example of order + orderlines; they belong together and orderlines have NO reference or meaning when the order has gone.
That means we cannot add details from system 1 to a movie to which system 2 has been applied. As was said before me: we cannot presume to know why a movie was rated'12' or '16' in the old ratingsystem and we can definitely not mix and match just to fill up the fields, however tempting it may be.
Even more, what do you want to do when the ratings of the two systems do not match anymore?(rating tuned down from 16 to 12 for example)? Exactly! | | | | Cor |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 34 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just my two cents;
We have two rating systems:
* Videovoorlichtingssysteem (without website and no ratings)
* Kijkwijzer
Both can be recognized by their icons.
For Kijkwijzer there is a problem with entries on their site coming from tv-stations. They can (and do!) rate different than dvd publishers. We have to be careful not to mix this up.
My idea would be to leave the rating details empty unless the specific Kijkwijzer-icons can be found on de dvd cover, on screen or a entry is made by the dvd publisher (and only the dvd publisher) on kijkwijzer.nl
Any other contribution in this field would just be speculation IMHO.
P.S. Why are so many people so keen to fill this field, anyway? | | | | Last edited: by Jeronimo |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jeronimo: Quote:
My idea would be to leave the rating details empty unless the specific Kijkwijzer-icons can be found on de dvd cover or a entry is made by the dvd publisher (and only the dvd publisher) on kijkwijzer.nl I could live with that. We also have releases that use different classifications on the cover than on the site and we aren't allowed to correct those. So why add details to releases that have none? We should only add data based on facts and we shouldn't assume anything. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
Quoting Jeronimo:
Quote:
My idea would be to leave the rating details empty unless the specific Kijkwijzer-icons can be found on de dvd cover or a entry is made by the dvd publisher (and only the dvd publisher) on kijkwijzer.nl
I could live with that. We also have releases that use different classifications on the cover than on the site and we aren't allowed to correct those. So why add details to releases that have none? We should only add data based on facts and we shouldn't assume anything. But it's the direct opposite of what the rules say! We're now not even talking about the old system, but about DVD's with an ACTUAL Kijkwijzer-rating, but without any additional rating details on the cover or on-screen. The rules then specifically allow us to take the rating details from the corresponding website - there's absolutely nothing against that whatsoever. As long as the rules allow me to, I'm certainly going to keep doing that! |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 34 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
Quoting Jeronimo:
Quote:
My idea would be to leave the rating details empty unless the specific Kijkwijzer-icons can be found on de dvd cover or a entry is made by the dvd publisher (and only the dvd publisher) on kijkwijzer.nl
I could live with that. We also have releases that use different classifications on the cover than on the site and we aren't allowed to correct those. So why add details to releases that have none? We should only add data based on facts and we shouldn't assume anything.
But it's the direct opposite of what the rules say! We're now not even talking about the old system, but about DVD's with an ACTUAL Kijkwijzer-rating, but without any additional rating details on the cover or on-screen. The rules then specifically allow us to take the rating details from the corresponding website - there's absolutely nothing against that whatsoever. As long as the rules allow me to, I'm certainly going to keep doing that! As long as this the entry was done by the dvd publisher you're right (like Zus & Zo) but I see many contributions refering to entries on kijkwijzer.nl clearly coming from tv-broadcasters and just putting data without factual evidence. | | | | Last edited: by Jeronimo |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
As long as the rules allow me to, I'm certainly going to keep doing that! And you know as much as I do that those rules are made by someone who doesn't know everything about every rating system in the world. I think it would also be complicated to accommodate the rules for all those systems. But maybe this part: Quote:
Filmratings.com, or the equivalent region-specific ratings information website should be changed to this: Filmratings.com, or the equivalent region-, system- and release-specific ratings information website | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | You don't seem to understand, Martin: we're now talking about Kijkwijzer-rated DVD's without any additional rating details on the cover or on-screen. THEN we should be allowed to take them from the corresponding kijkwijzer.nl website, right? I've already seen you submit these yourself. That is EXACTLY what the rules prescribe - and we're strictly talking about Kijkwijzer now. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I've already seen you submit these yourself. But I'm happy or allow others to reverse those if we all could be on the same page. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
I've already seen you submit these yourself.
But I'm happy or allow others to reverse those if we all could be on the same page. Well, I'm NOT! This is getting worse and worse - soon I won't be able to enter perfectly valid rating details for half of my DVD's. This is ridiculous, and it's not supported by the rules at all. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's getting "worse and ridiculous" if users use information which isn't based on facts but on personal interpretation. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
It's getting "worse and ridiculous" if users use information which isn't based on facts but on personal interpretation. But that's not the case here: you're just twisting things now. This is about a Kijkwijzer-rated DVD without further rating details on the cover or on the screen - for that we can go to the corresponding website to retrieve them. That is exactly the same as a region 1 DVD without rating details on the cover or on the screen, and going to filmratings.com to get them. It's what the rules tell us to do. I'm am not about to give that up - it affects a rather huge number of DVD's and there's no reason whatsoever to NOT do what the rules prescribe here. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | You really are too hung up by the rules. If a rating is given by someone else than the publisher and/or for TV broadcast (like Jeronimo said), you just can't be sure the rating details are valid. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 34 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
Quoting Jeronimo:
Quote:
My idea would be to leave the rating details empty unless the specific Kijkwijzer-icons can be found on de dvd cover or a entry is made by the dvd publisher (and only the dvd publisher) on kijkwijzer.nl
I could live with that. We also have releases that use different classifications on the cover than on the site and we aren't allowed to correct those. So why add details to releases that have none? We should only add data based on facts and we shouldn't assume anything.
But it's the direct opposite of what the rules say! We're now not even talking about the old system, but about DVD's with an ACTUAL Kijkwijzer-rating, but without any additional rating details on the cover or on-screen. The rules then specifically allow us to take the rating details from the corresponding website - there's absolutely nothing against that whatsoever. As long as the rules allow me to, I'm certainly going to keep doing that! As long as the dvd publisher submitted the info on kijkwijzer.nl and de dvd has kijkwijzer-icons I'm fine with that (like with Zus & Zo, though it doesn't make sense to specify AL-ratings). But I've seen a lot of contributions lately that incorrectly use the rating details of broadcasters to specify dvd rating. That's simply making assumptions. |
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