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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Author |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
With the group divider it makes the writing credits/data far more clear and structured. No, it turns it into a total mess. Are you honestly saying that "Written by XXX and YYY" would result in a a group divider? If you are, well, then I'm just baffled. If you're not, could you then please indicate where you draw the line? Why no to some and yes to others? |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am not arguing OMB, although Story by credit is possible. We are arguing groupings Quoting Rule Quote:
Dividers
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits. I do believe this meets both of these criteria. It is presented on the screen this way (so meets mirroring the film credits) it is also a logical group (all worked on the 1967 movie Bedazzled) We are not looking at dividing credits (Written by XXX and YYY) The more I think about it, the more it makes since. Give me logical reason(not personal preference) why not. I am still up in the air... Charlie |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | By the way, are you telling me there are people trying to break up a "Written by XXX and YYY" into groupings.
That just doesn't make since, and I would never consider that.
That would result in
xxx as writer
yyy as writer
There isn't a heading, or any thing that represents a grouping in any way.
MHO |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
With the group divider it makes the writing credits/data far more clear and structured.
No, it turns it into a total mess. Are you honestly saying that "Written by XXX and YYY" would result in a a group divider? If you are, well, then I'm just baffled. If you're not, could you then please indicate where you draw the line? Why no to some and yes to others? No, just a Written by XXX and YYY credit doesn't get a group divider. But in this film there are two distinct writing groups credits. One group for the original film from 1967 and one group responsible for the screenplay of this remake. | | | | Cor |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
But in this film there are two distinct writing groups credits. One group for the original film from 1967 and one group responsible for the screenplay of this remake.  Let's forget about the first one for a moment, and focus on the second one, just to make sure I'm getting this right: you're saying that there's a "group responsible for the screenplay of this remake". With that, you're referring to this credit:  Are you saying that warrants the use of a group divider to you? So "Screenplay by Larry Gelbart and Harold Ramis & Peter Tolan" results in a "Screenplay by" divider? If so, I couldn't disagree more, and I'm voting against that every single time (note that this affects thousands and thousands of profiles with similar "screenplay by" credits). And if that's not what you're saying, well, then I fail to see the difference. How is the group of OMB a real "group", and the group of screenwriters is not? Why are they treated differently? Is it just because "Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled" is longer than just the word "Screenplay". That's just the nature of OMB credits, but otherwise the credit format is very much the same...  | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
But in this film there are two distinct writing groups credits. One group for the original film from 1967 and one group responsible for the screenplay of this remake.
Let's forget about the first one for a moment, and focus on the second one, just to make sure I'm getting this right: you're saying that there's a "group responsible for the screenplay of this remake". With that, you're referring to this credit:
That warrants the use of a group divider to you? Honestly? "Screenplay by Larry Gelbart and Harold Ramis & Peter Tolan" results in a "Screenplay by" divider? Again: I would vote against that every single time (and this would affect thousands and thousands of profiles with similar "screenplay by" credits). No, I disagree on that as well. I would only use a group divider for the first group, because they are a distinct group in the credits. I would enter it this way (The roles between the brackets are the custom roles I would use locally): Group Divider: Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled - Peter Cook: OMB (Screenplay By) - Peter Cook: OMB (Story By) - Dudley Moore: OMB (Story By) ---Group End--- Larry Gelbart: Screenwriter (Screenplay By) Harold Ramis: Screenwriter (Screenplay By) Peter Tolan: Screenwriter (Screenplay By) | | | | Cor | | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
No. I would only use a group divider for the first group, because they are a distinct group in the credits. Phew, that's one crisis averted. I've seen people trying to do this, though, so be warned. As for the first group, I still don't believe "Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled" qualifies as a "crew team". It is, certainly, a entirely different thing than entering "Industrial Light and Magic" above a batch of visual effects credits. I don't see how "Screenplay by" followed by a bunch of names is not a "crew team", and "Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled" followed by a bunch of names suddenly is. Think about it: how does your approach affect every other OMB credit? Every "Based on the [whatever] by" credit suddenly warrants the use of a divider? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
No. I would only use a group divider for the first group, because they are a distinct group in the credits.
Phew, that's one crisis averted. I've seen people trying to do this, though, so be warned.
As for the first group, I still don't believe "Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled" qualifies as a "crew team". It is, certainly, a entirely different thing than entering "Industrial Light and Magic" above a batch of visual effects credits. I don't see how "Screenplay by" followed by a bunch of names is not a "crew team", and "Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled" followed by a bunch of names suddenly is. Think about it: how does your approach affect every other OMB credit? Every "Based on the [whatever] by" credit suddenly warrants the use of a divider? I think the part about logical grouping comes into play. I, personally, would not consider "Based upon a Novel by Stephen King" to be a group. What is the group? One does not a group make. Also a double credit (like your written by example), does not, in my mind, make a logical group. I think that you could make an argument for this (This is the first time I have seen a credit like this. I am sure there are more). We are looking a a group of writing credits, that in themselves were not directly tied to the movie. They were tied to another project. |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
No. I would only use a group divider for the first group, because they are a distinct group in the credits.
Phew, that's one crisis averted. I've seen people trying to do this, though, so be warned.
As for the first group, I still don't believe "Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled" qualifies as a "crew team". It is, certainly, a entirely different thing than entering "Industrial Light and Magic" above a batch of visual effects credits. I don't see how "Screenplay by" followed by a bunch of names is not a "crew team", and "Based on the Motion Picture Bedazzled" followed by a bunch of names suddenly is. Think about it: how does your approach affect every other OMB credit? Every "Based on the [whatever] by" credit suddenly warrants the use of a divider? Okay I haven't thought about that yet. Under 'normal' circumstances when a film is based on a book/novel it is credited as such. It's a credit for just one person or more persons with the same credit. So the Custom Role field can be used. In this case it's a film that has been used as original material. The original material's crew that has been credited have different writing responsibilities. Hmz okay I see your point now. On the one side there's the need to reproduce the film credits in Profiler, but on the other side in the Online this isn't easy because the custom roles aren't contributed and the OMB credits under a group divider still cann't be added by Screenplay By and Story By. I'm a little confused now haha! | | | | Cor | | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | [double post - sorry!] | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
On the one side there's the need to reproduce the film credits in Profiler, but on the other side in the Online this isn't easy because the custom roles aren't contributed and the OMB credits under a group divider still cann't be added by Screenplay By and Story By. I'm a little confused now haha! That's the key, IMHO. For online purposes, we've never tracked ACTUAL crew roles. Any such additional details are consistently kept local only. For online purposes, and the way such a contribution would come down as an update once approved, there's just three people listed as "screenwriter", and three as "original material by". Faced with that, my stance is that it doesn't make sense to treat one of those "groups" different than the other. |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
On the one side there's the need to reproduce the film credits in Profiler, but on the other side in the Online this isn't easy because the custom roles aren't contributed and the OMB credits under a group divider still cann't be added by Screenplay By and Story By. I'm a little confused now haha!
That's the key, IMHO. For online purposes, we've never tracked ACTUAL crew roles. Any such additional details are consistently kept local only. For online purposes, and the way such a contribution would come down as an update once approved, there's just three people listed as "screenwriter", and three as "original material by". Faced with that, my stance is that it doesn't make sense to treat one of those "groups" different than the other. I think you agree with me that this OMB credit is not standard and out of the ordinary? So seen from a logical point of view it makes sense to make that distinction in Profiler and in the Online as well. Moreover, the problem is that although you want to keep it local contributing means that the divider automatically gets in or you must remove it and add it again locally. | | | | Cor |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
I think you agree with me that this OMB credit is not standard and out of the ordinary? Yeah, well, it's not exactly ordinary, but something like this appears in plenty of films that are remakes, like this one. So it's not exactly rare, either. Quote:
Moreover, the problem is that although you want to keep it local contributing means that the divider automatically gets in or you must remove it and add it again locally. Similarly, those who don't want it, will have to remove it locally, and worse, when they want to contribute a different change to the crew of that profile, they'll have to add it in, then contribute the change they wanted to make, and then remove it again locally. So these problems affect both sides equally. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Oddly enough, I agree with T!M. If you wouldn't use a divider for 'Based on the Book IT by Stephen King', you shouldn't use a divider here as it is the exact same credit...OMB. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Oddly enough, I agree with T!M. If you wouldn't use a divider for 'Based on the Book IT by Stephen King', you shouldn't use a divider here as it is the exact same credit...OMB. But they're different things, I don't think you can compare them. "Based on the book by Stephen King" is a credit for only one person, there is no "team" involved. In the case of the 1967 Bedazzled, there is a team involved: Pete & Dud. I will admit it's an unconventional use of the group dividers, and I'm not sure I'd do it myself, but I'm having trouble seeing how it's against the rules. Edit: when you look at the screencap there's even a header: "Based on the motion picture BEDAZZLED" | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Are we now going to use dividers for every group crew credit?
Written by John Smith & Jane Sams and Bill Simms becomes...
Written by
John Smith Writer
Jane Sams Writer
Bill Simms Writer
...I am sorry, but this is a group role, not a crew team. While we use dividers for group roles in cast, we don't in crew. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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