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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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An FYI on Group Dividers |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
but as for this statement... you have me confused...
Quote:
And its Hoverboard Girl, the typer was just lazy, it isnt grouped IMHO.
Per Ken's clarification in the rules committee forum it is considered a group role. It don't matter if you believe the person just got lazy... it is one role for a group of people... so it is a group role. If Ken desides its a group role, then i will treat it as such. But i still dont think it IS a group role  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | IMO... 1 role for more then 1 person IS a group role!  | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
IMO... 1 role for more then 1 person IS a group role! I agree, based upon the Credits and comments ken has already made. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | I should also point out that, for the Back to the Future and A.I. examples, I do not think those are group dividers either. A group divider is something, at least to me, that could be a role...Biff's Gang, Video Game Boys, Hoverboard Girls, Additional Voices...something that could easily be put into the role field and make sense. In my opinion, things like '2015', '1985' & 'The Birthday Party', are cast dividers. They are there to divide the cast into section, not provide a group role. That is why I would prefer to use the episode dividers for these...again, that is what I would prefer and I know it isn't what the rules call for at this time. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | HMMMMMMMMMMMM.... Do we need to ask Ken for a 3rd divider type?  Edit to say... Personally I don't see a difference... still divides the cast into groups the way I see it personally. Just large groups... and there just happens to be other groups within the groups. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
HMMMMMMMMMMMM.... Do we need to ask Ken for a 3rd divider type? I would definately like to see that. In the interim, I will contribute based on the rules, then change them in my local. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I should also point out that, for the Back to the Future and A.I. examples, I do not think those are group dividers either. A group divider is something, at least to me, that could be a role...Biff's Gang, Video Game Boys, Hoverboard Girls, Additional Voices...something that could easily be put into the role field and make sense.
In my opinion, things like '2015', '1985' & 'The Birthday Party', are cast dividers. They are there to divide the cast into section, not provide a group role. That is why I would prefer to use the episode dividers for these...again, that is what I would prefer and I know it isn't what the rules call for at this time. <Slaps Self> For the purposes of 3.6 they sure look like Group Dividers to me. There are also sub-dividers or nested dividers within the GROUP of actors in 2015 or 1985, but it's a GROUP. For 3.7 or 4.0 or whatever perhaps more could be added, maybe even nesting, but why must everything be so hard. I see Groups. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I personally would prefer to see nesting made possible in the next version of the program. I think that alone would solve our problems. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
<Slaps Self> For the purposes of 3.6 they sure look like Group Dividers to me. There are also sub-dividers or nested dividers within the GROUP of actors in 2015 or 1985, but it's a GROUP. For 3.7 or 4.0 or whatever perhaps more could be added, maybe even nesting, but why must everything be so hard. I see Groups.
Skip I guess, in your rush to slap yourself, you missed the last line where I said, "again, that is what I would prefer and I know it isn't what the rules call for at this time." | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I personally would prefer to see nesting made possible in the next version of the program. I think that alone would solve our problems. Indeed, that would be an acceptable solution as well. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
<Slaps Self> For the purposes of 3.6 they sure look like Group Dividers to me. There are also sub-dividers or nested dividers within the GROUP of actors in 2015 or 1985, but it's a GROUP. For 3.7 or 4.0 or whatever perhaps more could be added, maybe even nesting, but why must everything be so hard. I see Groups.
Skip
I guess, in your rush to slap yourself, you missed the last line where I said, "again, that is what I would prefer and I know it isn't what the rules call for at this time." OK, I think  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
As people are finding out that there is no way to nest group dividers in movies... some people are trying to use Episode Dividers per Rules. One up for Vote now is A.I.: Artificial Intellegence. I am not blaming the contributor as It is not said at this time how to handle this in the rules. But it has/is being discussed in the Rules Committee forum. But either way... using Episode Dividers for such things is against the rules as they are written now. As the rules say when to use episode dividers... none of which is for groups within a single movie.
As I said... this has been brought up in the rules committee forum. And Ken said he sees 2 ways of doing this..
Quoting Ken Cole: (Rules Committee Forum)
Quote:
This could be entered as tweeter has it. Arguably, the inner heading is more important, and that's the one that would show in the credit info window.
Alternatively, this could be entered as "2015 - Video Waiters" , "2015 - Griff Gang", "2015" and "1985" for the dividers.
The other suggestion was basically still just use the group dividers as they are in the movie despite not nesting. I personally prefer how Ken suggested... and is what I have done so far when I came up to these.
But I wanted to put something here to let people know that this is a known problem and is being considered. But Episode Dividers for groups within a single movie is wrong.
As I know this is a new thing... and people don't know how to do it or vote on it. I thought I would bring Ken's suggestion to everyone. As I read Ken's post he doesn't give direction on how he wants them in all situations. He was commenting on a specific post saying yes, they could be done that way. I did not see it as him directing us to ignore what is in the rules. As I read it the rules specifically state to use episodic dividers for things like "Japanese voices" Quoting Pete: Quote:
As the rules say when to use episode dividers... none of which is for groups within a single movie. I'm sorry Pete but this statement is not true. Per the rules: Quote:
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.
Use Episode dividers for TV show episodes, distinct films, or other logical episodic distinction. Also use episode dividers for full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices".
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast".
"Cast", "In order of appearance" or other similar headers at the start of the credits should not be entered.
Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements.
Groups should be ended with a "Group End" type divider, unless the next entry begins a new group. Do not add a group end divider at the end of the cast, or at the end of a crew section.
I did miss the end dividers in the AI submission so I changed my YES vote to NO (thanks Pete). I do feel however the group vs episodic dividers he has set up is correct. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I said for GROUPS within a single movie.... Rules Quote: Quote:
Also use episode dividers for full cast division, such as "Japanese Voices". The way I understand this Full cast the division is when the entire cast is listed twice (or more) such as they do for anime and such. IF the full cast is not in both dividers it would not be full cast division. If Ken meant otherwise he wouldn't have said the 2 choices for Back to the future... he would have said that episode dividers are allowed in that case. As there is no difference between AI and BAck to the future... both use nested Groups. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Do go all Wolfman on me here I obviously misread what you were saying. I guess it just doesn't make sense to me that in one case a VOICE banner gets a group divider and in another the same VOICE banner would get an episode divider. As I told you yesterday in a PM you have a lot more experience than I with TV sets and divided cast so I'll trust your interpretation, even though it once again give us more of the if this then that stuff that makes the rules confusing. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | I actually see it the same way you do, Rick. We, however, seem to be in the minority so, as I said earlier, I will keep my preferences local and hope that Ken will institute a change to accomidate these as they are not unique. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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