Quoting Browneye:

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I used a third party database as my base level of information but it was cross checked with other databases.

So it wasn't according to Contribution Rules regarding credits and thus rightfully declined.

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If you have to sit and watch the credits of a blu-ray thats just COMPLETELY over the top.

Well, there is always the possibility to not contribute cast&crew. E.g. I don't if I can't find a suitable profile to copy from. If you do, crosscheck them to the actual credits on disc and document the source and your checking in the contribution notes and everything is peachy.

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And whose to say whats on movie credits is accurate.

Our contribution rules do.

cya, Mithi

Quoting T!M:

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Quoting Browneye:

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And whose to say whats on movie credits is accurate.

We have the "credited as" system to deal with such "inaccuracies".

Not at all. For example, rules forbid to correct "Jean Claude Forest" since there is only one movie with this name and CLT obliges to keep a wrong name. If we have a wonderful program (I would give 18/20), we have a very poor database (7/20), mainly due to inadequate rules (1/20).

Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting T!M:

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Quoting Browneye:

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And whose to say whats on movie credits is accurate.

We have the "credited as" system to deal with such "inaccuracies".

Not at all. For example, rules forbid to correct "Jean Claude Forest" since there is only one movie with this name and CLT obliges to keep a wrong name. If we have a wonderful program (I would give 18/20), we have a very poor database (7/20), mainly due to inadequate rules (1/20).

It's not the rules that prevent you from doing this, it's more so how the program is written and the fact that the rules have to be there to have things be consistent. If we had a separate Cast/Crew database that you could choose the display name you want, you would be happy. But as it stands, we need to have a consistent way of linking actors/actresses without sacrificing how it is credited in the credits.

While the "credited as" might not be that important to some, it is very much so to others, so that information needs to be retained. As for why you can enter "Jean Claude Forest" correctly, I'm assuming this is due to conflicting CLT results? If CLT tells us to enter in a name that isn't "his real name", this can be frustrating (I deal with this all the time with VA aliases), but it's just something that everyone has to live with until the Cast/Crew is overhauled and a screen name can be selected locally.

There is no way (at this point) to give you what you want without causing big problems with inconsistencies.

BTW, I really do not mean to derail this thread surfeur, so I won't get into this conversation much more then I already have, but would be happy to chat more in another thread or via PMs. 

Quoting Vittra:

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While the "credited as" might not be that important to some, it is very much so to others, so that information needs to be retained. As for why you can enter "Jean Claude Forest" correctly, I'm assuming this is due to conflicting CLT results? If CLT tells us to enter in a name that isn't "his real name", this can be frustrating (I deal with this all the time with VA aliases), but it's just something that everyone has to live with until the Cast/Crew is overhauled and a screen name can be selected locally.

The reason he can't be entered 'correctly' is because he only has one credit.  That credit is 'Jean Claude Forest'.  His  actual name, according to surfeur51 and a credit that is not a valid profiler credit, is 'Jean-Claude Forest'.  See this thread.

Quoting Browneye:

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It took me an hour just to do one Blu-ray.

One hour, it's nothing at all 

Just to make the profile for the movies included in the Catacomb of Creepshow and Mortuary of Madness set it had taken me more than 25 hours for each set 

Quoting Browneye:

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If you have to sit and watch the credits of a blu-ray thats just COMPLETELY over the top. I dont have players near my PC.

I don't have a BD drive and I sit with a pad and paper and copy the cast/crew as I watch the film. It's time-consuming and annoying; but that's what the rules state.
DVDs I edit using my dvd-rom drive and I can assure you it takes less time than an hour to do the cast and crew (on most occasions).

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I would have thought something is way better than nothing at all. Theres got to be a trade off between PERCEIVED inaccuracy and having usable data.

Something IS better than nothing. The easiest thing is to not submit cast and crew. Instead only submit the things you can verify from the box. This, at least, gets the profile in the database. Someone else will do the other work.
For example - because I don't have a BD drive - I requested in the forum that someone create a very basic child profile for a BD boxset. I then did all the cast and crew myself and submitted it.

Basically, if you can't do something right, then don't do anything at all, in my opinion. However, due to Profiler's versatility there are plenty of things you can do correctly with very little effort which will contribute to the overall improvement of the online database.

Quoting Browneye:

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So to summarize:-

-It's a database, but there seems to be a desire not to have any data in it.

There is a desire to have accurate data in it. If you want crap data there are many other programmes or sites you can use

Quoting Browneye:

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Rejecting submitted data for a triviality seems against the idea of a user contributing database.

Rejecting incorrect data, or potentially illegally obtained cloned data, is not a triviality

Quoting Browneye:

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So to summarize:-
-Copying from the IMDB is bad, but copying from the actual movie is okay (Transcribing from the movie is just as bad as taking the data from IMDB. The credits are part of the movie and the whole movie is protected under copyright. Taking the data from the credits or from IMDB doesn't seem to be any different).

You demonstrate your naievety around copyright laws. Just be assured we can legally use the film credits, we cannot legally scrape IMDB data

Quoting Browneye:

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-Whats to stop anybody copying the data from IMDB and then saying they got it from the disc?

Nothing at first, but IMDB protect their data by certain use of phrases, terminology, subtle changes to names etc. It is easily spotted by most dvdprofiler users and the screeners

Quoting Browneye:

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-Seeing that R2 Blu-ray contributors is low, why have such a negative attitude towards those contributors. I'd rather see Data in the DB than none at all. I'm not advocating a free for all, however only serious people are going to make contributions so they are more than likely going to provide correct data.

If you read what has been answered above, and actually try the cloning of existing and documented profiles for instance, you will realise how quick and easy it is. If you need a walkthrough to help you, please PM me and I will show you, then I guarantee you will become a convert.

Quoting Browneye:

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-Having DATA in a DATABASE that can be fixed at a later date as an evolving project, is far better than having NO data at all.

No. It is easier to identify incomplete profiles if the data is missing. If you enter an incorrect cast for example, how do i know it is incorrect and that i should audit it?

Quoting Browneye:

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Well you've lost me as a contributor. The insane desire to have every single T crossed and i dotted takes away from any fun you could have contributing to the cause.

Hardly a threat as you don't contribute accurate data. As said above, give me 20 minutes of PMs and I could convert you. However, if you want to be Kiwi    about it, keep your data local and enjoy the use of the program, and the contribution work of others.

Rich

Quoting Browneye:

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...
-How can any other database assert copyright on the actual credit data that's owned by the movie company? IMDB can assert copyright on the data structure and layout/presentation, but not the actual data itself.
-Whats to stop anybody copying the data from IMDB and then saying they got it from the disc?

You are correct that the data itself is not copyrighted. In terms of a phonebook: the data items name, address and phone number are not copyrighted, also not the association of the three together. However, the effort to make a phone book with a complete alphabetical listing (or any other sort), even a page or a column, is extra work by the maker and that product IS copyrighted.

I didn't check up on IMDB cast/crew lately, but they had a number of tricks up their sleeve:
- sort in a different sequence than the movie credits (just one or two names out-of-sequence near the bottom, so very inconspicuous)
- spelling 'errors' in a name or jobtitle/role which would indicate a clear copy
- provide a surname to a role where the credits only use the first name (or the other way around)
- naming conventions that makes the listing different from the movie credits (using I, II, IV, for instance)
Anyone of those make a blatant copy of IMDB data (instead of the movie credits) easily identifyable.

Yes, the movie credits themselves are probably also copyrighted. So, this site has a few conventions up its own sleeve:
- The 'credited as' feature bypasses the need for an exact copy
- the parsing into name parts is added value beyong the simple movie credits
- its own convention on ", Jr." and ", Sr."
- crew job titles have to follow the program's standard terminology
- birth years are not in any movie credits AFAIK, so also added value beyond the simple movie credits
But you are right, there are some zealots on the forums who overlook that a really exact copy of the full credits is not in the interest of Invelos...

As for the voting, the screeners mainly decide on what the voters say. Because the "IMDB" issues are so well known, saying you based something only on that is basically raising your own red flag. 

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-Seeing that R2 Blu-ray contributors is low, why have such a negative attitude towards those contributors. I'd rather see Data in the DB than none at all. I'm not advocating a free for all, however only serious people are going to make contributions so they are more than likely going to provide correct data.
....

Already told you that is probably more applicable to your country than to the whole region B of the BluRay world.

Again, there is no negative attitude towards contributors. You can even contribute a very sparsely filled in profile (title, UPC, and minimal other data, not even covers). However, when you provide much detail then the request is to make sure it is correct and use the contribution notes to back-up such claims.