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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Formatting of Initials for Cast and Crew |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | I can understand what you are saying. But I personally do not agree with it. I personally like having credited as used to show how the credits look exactly... including spaces or no spaces between initials. I remember when this all came up and there was people that felt that if the initials were together they should all be in the first name field only. whether there was periods between the initials or not. So I guess that is why some people automatically put both initials in the first name field. Not only that they were wrong. That they believed they were right.
All we can do is go by Ken's decision on the matter. He apparently decided to trust that if contributors use no space between the initials it is because there is none in the credits. Now is that a good thing? I don't know. But I guess it is no different then trusting that contributors (in general... no one in particular) researched common names without putting their sources in the notes. I don't personally agree with that... but that was his decision.
You can request that the filter for initials is removed (or changed) if you wish. But I personally wouldn't get my hopes up as it was something most people seemed to want. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Pete said everything I was going to. I only wish to add that I like the filter the way it is. If there isn't a space between the initials, 'J.K. Simmons', I enter it as 'J.K./ /Simmons'. I do that because that is how he is credited. I know that the program will insert a space where the '/' is, so I can't enter it any other way. This filter allows me to contribute my 'as credited' data without my having to go through the effort of altering the name for contribution purposes. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Pete said everything I was going to. I only wish to add that I like the filter the way it is. If there isn't a space between the initials, 'J.K. Simmons', I enter it as 'J.K./ /Simmons'. I do that because that is how he is credited. I know that the program will insert a space where the '/' is, so I can't enter it any other way. This filter allows me to contribute my 'as credited' data without my having to go through the effort of altering the name for contribution purposes. I have to wonder: do you maintain separate, non-linking entries for J.K. and J./K. in your local database on purpose, or do you accept your own contribution when it's approved, meaning any J.K.'s that you might have entered turn back into the proper J./K., thus re-establishing the link? If so: what if it doesn't get approved? Or if you don't accept the update back into your database for other reasons? Then, providing you have films with both variants, you'll end up with separate, non-linking, and both "as credited" entries for J.K.//Simmons and J./K. Simmons - which is exactly the problem that Ken meant to address by setting a standard... I honestly fail to see a "good" side to this scenario.  Quote:
If there isn't a space between the initials, 'J.K. Simmons', I enter it as 'J.K./ /Simmons'. I do that because that is how he is credited. I know that the program will insert a space where the '/' is, so I can't enter it any other way. Yes you can. You can (and should, really) enter J./K./Simmons [J.K. Simmons]. Aside from the obvious problems noted above, simply removing the space from the "credited as" field is probably even less work than creating a new cast entry for J.K.//Simmons when you already have a J./K./Simmons one. Quote:
This filter allows me to contribute my 'as credited' data without my having to go through the effort of altering the name for contribution purposes. Using J./K./Simmons [J.K. Simmons] is not so much "altering the name for contribution purposes" as it the universal DVD Profiler standard to ensure that not only in the online database, but especially in your own database, the J.K. and J. K. credits will link together. I really fail to see the advantage in making an A./B./C. entry every time you see a space, and a A.B.//C. every time you don't - the one and only result is that you end up with multiple, non-linking entries for the same people. Again, this is exactly what the standard is meant to address: now that we have a universal way to deal with initials, there's no need for all this hassle. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | The Rules tell me to enter initials with or wioth out the periods as J/K, so the the deciding factor would be the Credited As data. I might have a J./K./Simmons and a J/K Simmons, but unless someone has snuck something in on me I should NOT have JK/ or J.K., that should be Credited As. Ideally the CLT would resolve the J k/ J. K. issue but it won't because so much coerrupt data is already there and continues to be entered...so I deal with it myself.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | So what you're all saying is that it's all right for the program to assume that J.K./Simmons should have a credited as but that J./K./Simmons shouldn't?
That makes no sense to me.
I'm not about to start putting the intials together in the first name box because that would be completely wrong (hell, the very fact that the filter separates them again says it's wrong). But it seems that's the only way to have the filter automatically put in the correct credited as.
Once again I am back to the 'make the credited as system local' standpoint that I have held ever since it was introduced. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I'm not about to start putting the intials together in the first name box because that would be completely wrong (hell, the very fact that the filter separates them again says it's wrong). I agree with you there: nobody should be entering the initials together in the first name field. It's good that we have a filter to automatically correct the data coming from the few users that are still doing this, but it's still wrong and highly impractical, as you'd repeatedly be creating double, non-linking entries for the same people, that will only be corrected back to their proper form (and thus: ensure linking between A.B. and A. B. credits) if you actually contribute that data, if that contribution is approved, and if you then accept that update back into your database. There are so many if's there that people doing this are bound to end up with double, non-linking entries for the same people in their database... Instead, the standard was explicitly set to to eliminate problems like this, and to make things easier. Now that we have a universal DVD Profiler standard for this, one that even trumps the CLT results, we can simply enter ALL initials as A./B. without giving it a moment's thought. Just enter them all in the exact same way. The one exception is that you add the use of "credited as" when no space is seen on-screen. Again, it's good to have this standard backed up by an automated filter, to ensure "A.B." entries in the first name field no longer enter the database, but that's really not the key. Edit: I'll add that up until the line " The one exception is that you add the use of "credited as" when no space is seen on-screen", it seems that literally all of us, including you, got what we wanted: a simple, universal standard for dealing with initials. Ken just felt that we need to represent the credits as closely as possible - as evidenced by the rules saying: "list names exactly as they are in the credits". Apparently " exactly" includes the presence or lack of a space between initials, and I gather it's that last part you could have done without. I can understand that, and I'd have been perfectly happy if Ken had gone that way as well, but still: I'm happy that we have a standard. At least I can now enter all common names with initials consistently, and I really don't mind removing the space from the "credited as" field when I don't see it on-screen. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I have to wonder: do you maintain separate, non-linking entries for J.K. and J./K. in your local database on purpose, or do you accept your own contribution when it's approved, meaning any J.K.'s that you might have entered turn back into the proper J./K., thus re-establishing the link? If so: what if it doesn't get approved? Or if you don't accept the update back into your database for other reasons? Then, providing you have films with both variants, you'll end up with separate, non-linking, and both "as credited" entries for J.K.//Simmons and J./K. Simmons - which is exactly the problem that Ken meant to address by setting a standard... I honestly fail to see a "good" side to this scenario. Let me put your mind at ease. I only have one entry for J.K. Simmons. That entry is, 'J.K./ / Simmons'. The 'credited as' conversion is done on the website so my data is never changed. For these profiles, I do not accept my own contributions when they are approved. Why would I? I already know they are correct. As to what happens if they don't get approved...If memory serves, that has only happened once, so it isn't a big concern for me. Quote:
Yes you can. You can (and should, really) enter J./K./Simmons [J.K. Simmons]. Aside from the obvious problems noted above, simply removing the space from the "credited as" field is probably even less work than creating a new cast entry for J.K.//Simmons when you already have a J./K./Simmons one. I guess, technically, I can but I fail to see why I should. My data is my data and the filter converts it for the on-line db. I'm happy, Ken's happy. I don't see a problem. Quote:
Using J./K./Simmons [J.K. Simmons] is not so much "altering the name for contribution purposes" as it the universal DVD Profiler standard to ensure that not only in the online database, but especially in your own database, the J.K. and J. K. credits will link together. I really fail to see the advantage in making an A./B./C. entry every time you see a space, and a A.B.//C. every time you don't - the one and only result is that you end up with multiple, non-linking entries for the same people. Again, this is exactly what the standard is meant to address: now that we have a universal way to deal with initials, there's no need for all this hassle. You are making assumptions you really shouldn't... The first, that I have multiple entries for J.K. Simmons. I don't. Unless I have missed one in my collection, he is always credited without the space. The second, that I care whether or not they link. Again, I don't. If I want to know what films a particular actor was in, I use IMDb. The third, that it is a hassle. It isn't. I did all 3 Spiderman movies last month and wasn't hassled in the slightest. The forth, and most egregious, is that everyone uses the program the same way you do. They don't...at least I don't. As I said, I like this filter because it allows me to keep my local data the way I want it while making it easy to contribute. Normally, when a 'credited as' is needed, I have to enter that data into my local, so that I can contribute, then remove it when I am done. While that might not make any sense to you, it really doesn't have to as my local is my local and it only has to make sense to me. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
So what you're all saying is that it's all right for the program to assume that J.K./Simmons should have a credited as but that J./K./Simmons shouldn't?
That makes no sense to me. I am not saying it is 'o.k.' nor am I saying it makes sense, because it doesn't. As you have illustrated, there is a fatal flaw in this method... Quote:
I'm not about to start putting the intials together in the first name box because that would be completely wrong (hell, the very fact that the filter separates them again says it's wrong). But it seems that's the only way to have the filter automatically put in the correct credited as. ...and this is that flaw. While the filter works for people like me, it does not work for people like you. My contributions will always include a 'credited as' name...your's will not. A better method would have been to eliminate the 'credited as' completely and simply created a standard...'J.K. Simmons' is always filtered to become 'J./K./Simmons'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
So what you're all saying is that it's all right for the program to assume that J.K./Simmons should have a credited as but that J./K./Simmons shouldn't?
That makes no sense to me.
I am not saying it is 'o.k.' nor am I saying it makes sense, because it doesn't. As you have illustrated, there is a fatal flaw in this method...
Quote:
I'm not about to start putting the intials together in the first name box because that would be completely wrong (hell, the very fact that the filter separates them again says it's wrong). But it seems that's the only way to have the filter automatically put in the correct credited as.
...and this is that flaw. While the filter works for people like me, it does not work for people like you. My contributions will always include a 'credited as' name...your's will not. A better method would have been to eliminate the 'credited as' completely and simply created a standard...'J.K. Simmons' is always filtered to become 'J./K./Simmons'. Exactly! You say fatal flaw...I have another word...farce!  |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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