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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Zack and Miri |
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| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Using that part of the rules then negates the part that I quoted about original theatrical title! |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote:
Using that part of the rules then negates the part that I quoted about original theatrical title! It does, unfortunately. Apparently the part you quoted explains what the field is meant for (and for which I'm using it personally), but the part I quoted tells you where to get it. And inexplicably it says that if there's a title seen in the "copyright notice", then that's what we have to use. Again: I have pointed out this ridiculous inconsistency time and time again, but both the voters, the screeners, and Ken personally have told me that indeed the title from the "copyright notice" (if there is one) prevails. I've never understood why, and I personally always have, and always will use the title from the actual credits. I will, once more, share my own personal rule on titles. It goes like this: Enter the title from the DVD cover into the "title" field, and the title from the film's credits in the "original title" field.That's all I need. Maybe I'm being dense, or I just own the wrong movies, but that little rule has always worked for me without a single exception: if the cover and the credits show different, or slightly varying titles, I record them both, in the two fields that, to me, seem to be expressly designed to do just that. I honestly don't understand why the rules favor the copyright notice, which in effects renders about half of my "original titles" un-contributable. I don't care - locked 'em all down - but I just don't get it... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | For whatever it's worth, the DVDs we got in at my shop are the "Zack and Miri" ones rather than the "Zack and Miri Make a Porno" ones. So both do indeed exist. Here is a link to the non-porno one at Amazon - no-pornoAnd here is the porno one - porno(As an aside, we don't do any ordering. This is just what came in. We'd have been happier with the Porno ones, but we have very little inventory control - I have no control over what is available, only what I say yes to of what is. And we'd rather have the no-porno ones than none at all.) | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield | | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | I picked up the full title at Best Buy today, Wal-Mart and Target both had the edited ones. The back cover of mine says "Make a Porno" is the title, it's got the copywrite and the quotes in the credit box. I remember the first trailers I saw for this had the Porno, then later TV spots around the theater release got soft and dropped that part. I would think the real proper title is the full thing (sorry, I haven't seen the movie yet so I'm unsure what the title card on that reads, those with Wal-Mart versions please let us know if that was changed too). If the backs of the edited covers say anything different, I would guess that's just the Weinsteins trying to destroy the world via confusion yet again.  I forgot to look at the small print on the edited ones, but wouldn't be shocked if they were altered to remove that horrible mind-warpping word.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am the NO voter on Darknite's "Zack and Miri" contribution and I am 100% correct in my vote. The Original Title rule states specifically: "Use the title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's credits". There is a Copyright Notice and it clearly shows the title as "Zack and Miri". The Modified Title rule does NOT apply in this case. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
I am the NO voter on Darknite's "Zack and Miri" contribution and I am 100% correct in my vote. The Original Title rule states specifically: "Use the title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's credits". There is a Copyright Notice and it clearly shows the title as "Zack and Miri". The Modified Title rule does NOT apply in this case. There you go. Although I don't like it at all, 8ballMax is absolutely right. I repeat: let's all appeal to Ken to get this changed. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Sounds like you did it right since the title has to come from the front cover...
Since you said the credits use the full title I would think you should be ok just by stating that.... Something like...
- Title from the front cover per Rules
- Original title added... taken from the opening Credits of the movie itself obviously I remembered this rule wrong. That is what I get for not double checking before I post   Anyway... I am all for a rules change for something like this. Quoting T!M: Quote:
Enter the title from the DVD cover into the "title" field, and the title from the film's credits in the "original title" field.
That's all I need. Maybe I'm being dense, or I just own the wrong movies, but that little rule has always worked for me without a single exception: if the cover and the credits show different, or slightly varying titles, I record them both, in the two fields that, to me, seem to be expressly designed to do just that. I honestly don't understand why the rules favor the copyright notice, which in effects renders about half of my "original titles" un-contributable. I don't care - locked 'em all down - but I just don't get it... Not saying right or wrong... but I guess it depends what you are looking for. If you want the actual original title it could be one that is neither on the case or in the credits. There is many movies out there with more then 2 possible titles.... so if the credits uses one possible alternate title... and the case uses a different possible alternate title... how do you record the original title? of course that could be simply change the name of the field to something other then original title since it don't seem that you can always capture it as it is. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Although I fully, fully agree that 'Zack and Miri Make a Porno' needs to be in the original title field (and would do so locally), it's not allowed per the rules. I've got many perfectly valid "original titles" declined thanks to this "copyright notice" part of the rule, and it's really time that it stops. I've asked to change that rule time and time again - maybe this time someone will listen.
The issue is that the rules on "original title" say: "Use the title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's credits." I have personally asked Ken to make the film credits the primary source, providing several very valid and obvious examples like this one, and he declined, saying that making the copyright notice the primary source was done consciously. So now we're stuck with it: if the copyright notice says 'Zack and Miri', then unfortunately, that's what the online database is stuck with. There really is no way around it - under the current rule, that is.
I suggest we all campaign to finally get this fixed. Well, yes, but sometimes not even the screen credits get it right. I own some DVDs whose foreign original title has been translated in the credits, and the only way to find out the original title would be some sort of external documentation. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
The issue is that the rules on "original title" say: "Use the title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's credits." I have personally asked Ken to make the film credits the primary source, providing several very valid and obvious examples like this one, and he declined, saying that making the copyright notice the primary source was done consciously. So now we're stuck with it: if the copyright notice says 'Zack and Miri', then unfortunately, that's what the online database is stuck with. There really is no way around it - under the current rule, that is. I guess it depends on how you understand the rule. The rule says to take the title...the original title...from the copyright notice if available, otherwise frim the films credits. If the title in the copyright notice is the same as the title on the case then, clearly, the original title isn't available in the copyright notice.  Quote:
I suggest we all campaign to finally get this fixed. My interpretation aside, I completely agree. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting White Pongo, Jr.: Quote:
Well, yes, but sometimes not even the screen credits get it right. I own some DVDs whose foreign original title has been translated in the credits, and the only way to find out the original title would be some sort of external documentation. I get that. I just never encountered something like that - as I said earlier: maybe I just have the wrong movies.  Even if I did, I might just be perfectly content with profiling the title from the cover and the title from the credits. If there really was a third variant that I felt was important enough to store somewhere, I think I'd be happy to use the notes field. At least " take the title from the cover and the original title from the film's credits" has quite a lot less of the unfortunate (and needless) side effects that the current rule has - note that what we have now doesn't exactly deal very well with your example either. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I guess it depends on how you understand the rule. The rule says to take the title...the original title...from the copyright notice if available, otherwise frim the films credits. If the title in the copyright notice is the same as the title on the case then, clearly, the original title isn't available in the copyright notice. That's nice...  I'd love to able to interpret the rule that way, but unfortunately I have more than just my interpretation. Because I felt so strongly about this, I had a PM discussion about this with Ken, where I supplied similar examples like the 'Zack and Miri' one here, complete with coverscans and screenshots. And Ken explicitly told me that if the title in the copyright notice matched the one on the cover, that no original title should be entered. I've been keeping them local since. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: June 21, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,621 |
| | Posted: | | | | So the real problem here is the overly P.C. world of easily offended people that make alterations like this even possible, much less needed.
I suggest everyone return their discs without Porno in the title, and get a store with the Porno to price match. Tell them (return store) in no un-clear terms that while trying not offend others, they have offended you!
I think they were the same opening week sale price at BB and WM, Target was a buck more for the altered version. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
That's nice... I'd love to able to interpret the rule that way, but unfortunately I have more than just my interpretation. Because I felt so strongly about this, I had a PM discussion about this with Ken, where I supplied similar examples like the 'Zack and Miri' one here, complete with coverscans and screenshots. And Ken explicitly told me that if the title in the copyright notice matched the one on the cover, that no original title should be entered. I've been keeping them local since. Now, see, that was your first mistake. I find it easier to do what I want if I don't ask for clarification first. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 374 |
| | Posted: | | | | How can one movie have 2 original titles? That is not possible.
The original title is 'Zack and Miri make a porno', no matter what the copyright notice says. If this is against the rules then something is wrong with them. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | While you can often find the original title in the copyright notice or/and in the films opening credits, neither of them is the definition I would go after.
IMO the original title is the title, which has been used at the film's world premiere. Both, the copyright notice and the opening credit on the DVD may already feature an altered or localised title, which makes them an unreliable source for what I want to record in the original title field. |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,879 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bigdaddyhorse: Quote:
I suggest everyone return their discs without Porno in the title, and get a store with the Porno to price match. Tell them (return store) in no un-clear terms that while trying not offend others, they have offended you!
I dare you to price match the $7 I'd pay for a copy at my store. The $15 a general customer would pay, possibly do-able, but my price ... | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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