Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
What about a filter on accented letters...?
Author Message
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
Norway Posts: 1,059
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
It is correct in that it is real data that actually appears in relation to any given film, surfeur. I don't care for anyone's imagined or hallucinated data...


Credits are correct as long as somebody doesn't make a typo. Typos exist (I'have even seen some in those forums...), and if you find Jean Paul Belmondo in end credits, it's just a typo. I'm not hallucinated when I affirm that the correct name is Jean-Paul Belmondo, and can cite thousands pages that confirm that.


Please - not this old song again... 
We enter credits as they appear on screen Surfeur, and you know this. For you to claim that there is a typo in the Film's credits is sheer madness (and also a tad arrogant in my opinion), as you have no first hand knowledge towards the production of the film.
Why is it so hard to accept that we use the on-screen credit (and properly utilise the Credited As feature when approriate proof has been established)?
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
 Last edited: by Berak
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Berak:
Quote:

Please - not this old song again... 


Old song... if you want. Every one here tries to find a way to link actors, and normalization of Jr was made for that.

Propagating non liking names because somebody made a evident typo doesn't help users that try to link properly their database.
Images from movies
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Dr Pavlov (formerly known as skipnet50):
Quote:
Wrong again, Rho. But just for yucks, what is your definition of "correct". (...)

Since you ask: a correct name would be one which is used in at least one credit. The matching parts of this credit should be parsed into the three fields (first-, middle-, and last name). Some standardisation may be allowed (e.g. punctuation in suffixes). Leaving out all accents and incorrectly converting umlauts  (ä to a instead of ae in German names) and other foreign characters to ASCII would not be correct. Which of the available credits should be taken as the basis for common name? There would be several possibilities. One of them is the most credited one, which works perfectly fine for me.
 Last edited: by RHo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRaymondG
Registered: July 7, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 284
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov (formerly known as skipnet50):
Quote:
Wrong again, Rho. But just for yucks, what is your definition of "correct". (...)

Since you ask: a correct name would be one which is used in at least one credit. The matching parts of this credit should be parsed into the three fields (first-, middle-, and last name). Some standardisation may be allowed (e.g. punctuation in suffixes). Leaving out all accents and incorrectly converting umlauts  (ä to a instead of ae in German names) and other foreign characters to ASCII would not be correct. Which of the available credits should be taken as the basis for common name? There would be several possibilities. One of them is the most credited one, which works perfectly fine for me.



That seems a fairly decent definition of "correct" in this regard.
My DVD's

Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Are you referring to user generated typos, surfeur. Those should be corrected. If you are talking about film typos, go back to my comment relative to you believing that you have all the answers and know more than the filmmakers.

Just like your opinion on Overviews the data ius the data, and not subject to your imagination of hallucination.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
While I agree all names which have different ways of writing, with or without accents and/or dashes, should all be linked together for the Credit Lookup Tool, I'm against any filter on cast and crew contributions. In the case of the "Jr." and "Sr." with or without comma situation I rather should have seen a rule for English names, because now the whole world is forced to use the English method on names of different origin.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting RaymondG:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov (formerly known as skipnet50):
Quote:
Wrong again, Rho. But just for yucks, what is your definition of "correct". (...)

Since you ask: a correct name would be one which is used in at least one credit. The matching parts of this credit should be parsed into the three fields (first-, middle-, and last name). Some standardisation may be allowed (e.g. punctuation in suffixes). Leaving out all accents and incorrectly converting umlauts  (ä to a instead of ae in German names) and other foreign characters to ASCII would not be correct. Which of the available credits should be taken as the basis for common name? There would be several possibilities. One of them is the most credited one, which works perfectly fine for me.



That seems a fairly decent definition of "correct" in this regard.



Agree. That's a fairly decent definition of "correct" in this regard.
Only problem, it doesn't work very well for linking and searching when it comes to names that can be spelled with and without accents in the credits.
For instance, take a glance at the CLT result for actress Penelope Cruz:
there are 113 DVDP profiles with "Penelope Cruz", but most of them do NOT link with the 469 profiles having "Penélope Cruz", neither they can be found in a same search in the program.
Do you think they will all link soon? Sorry, but I seriously doubt that. I say: let's get practical and make them link by a filter. The credited names will stay just as they are, but at least they will link and you will find them in the same search in the program.

I think such a filter would work fairly well for situations like Penelope / Penélope, while, yes, I'll admit to it, it would be far more complex for umlauts, because they translate to two letters.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Enry:

Ken has said several times that we are after MOST COMMONLY CREDITED names, which may not coincide with what you or someone else would consider "correct". For our purposes Penelope Cruz WOULD be correct. Penelope Cruz clearly meets with the actresses approval, who are we to say otherwise. Are you a distant relation to her or a very personal friend and therefore have some reason to take umbrage or are you like me just a somebody with no connections and no ability to judge beyond what the data says.


Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Enry:

Ken has said several times that we are after MOST COMMONLY CREDITED names, which may not coincide with what you or someone else would consider "correct". For our purposes Penelope Cruz WOULD be correct. Penelope Cruz clearly meets with the actresses approval, who are we to say otherwise. Are you a distant relation to her or a very personal friend and therefore have some reason to take umbrage or are you like me just a somebody with no connections and no ability to judge beyond what the data says.


Skip


I didn't say a thing on which "Cruz" I consider correct or not, that's not the issue at hand.

The only issue I am trying to bring to your attention is that now all those profiles for Mrs. Cruz do not link.
Simple as that.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
(...) it would be far more complex for umlauts, because they translate to two letters.

While I know that ä, ö, ü are translated to ae, oe, ue in German, I'm not sure that this is true for every language (Scandinavian languages?).
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,736
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
For our purposes Penelope Cruz WOULD be correct.

I'd say it COULD be correct. But EnryWiki just said that there are 469 profiles with "Penélope Cruz" and only 113 with "Penelope Cruz". I haven't looked into it any further just yet, but as it is, I'd say that, four our purposes, at the moment, "Penélope Cruz" seems to be the "correct" form (= common name)... Let's try not to confuse things even more by by turning things around.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
For our purposes Penelope Cruz WOULD be correct.

I'd say it COULD be correct. But EnryWiki just said that there are 469 profiles with "Penélope Cruz" and only 113 with "Penelope Cruz". I haven't looked into it any further just yet, but as it is, I'd say that, four our purposes, at the moment, "Penélope Cruz" seems to be the "correct" form (= common name)... Let's try not to confuse things even more by by turning things around.

Touche.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I would be happy if the searches automated the accent characters so that I don't have to remember every variant of a name.  When I search for Penelope Cruz, I want both Penelope Cruz and Penélope Cruz to come up.  I'm sure Ken can make some search algorithm that can automate accent characters as an interim solution.
My Home Theater
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
I would be happy if the searches automated the accent characters so that I don't have to remember every variant of a name.  When I search for Penelope Cruz, I want both Penelope Cruz and Penélope Cruz to come up.  I'm sure Ken can make some search algorithm that can automate accent characters as an interim solution.


I'd love that. Even better, have that as an option, just in case you want to look for each variant separately.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
I would be happy if the searches automated the accent characters so that I don't have to remember every variant of a name.  When I search for Penelope Cruz, I want both Penelope Cruz and Penélope Cruz to come up.  I'm sure Ken can make some search algorithm that can automate accent characters as an interim solution.

xradman:

This is on of the many reasons why the simple association system works best. You do not have to know every variant, onec your associations are made just type in one variant, any variant and you will get the exact same results for all possibilities.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
For our purposes Penelope Cruz WOULD be correct.

I'd say it COULD be correct. But EnryWiki just said that there are 469 profiles with "Penélope Cruz" and only 113 with "Penelope Cruz". I haven't looked into it any further just yet, but as it is, I'd say that, four our purposes, at the moment, "Penélope Cruz" seems to be the "correct" form (= common name)... Let's try not to confuse things even more by by turning things around.


Here are the CLT results

"Penélope Cruz" is credited in the following 154 titles (469 profiles)

"Penelope Cruz" is credited in the following 59 titles (113 profiles)

Of course, the "correct" Common Name according to our present rules would be "Penélope Cruz", unless someone can document that most of the 469 credits are incorrect!

So far, it's how the system SHOULD work. But does it work?

After a cursory examination, I daresay that nearly all of those 113 credits are just for "Penelope Cruz", so they do NOT link with the 469 credits for  "Penélope Cruz", correct me if I'm wrong.

Only very few of those 113 credits do actually use the Common Name
"Penélope Cruz" [Penelope Cruz],
thus only those very few ones do link.
-- Enry
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next