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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What's the consensus/guideline on "original title" for TV shows? |
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| Author |
Message |
  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm just trying to apply the rules as well as I can. I see nothing in the rules that tells me to apply "original title" to season indicators, and quite rightly so, IMHO, as it's nearly impossible to commit to a source. Think about this question: what is your source for "The Complete First Season"? Is it the R1 release? Why? Because it's an American show? But what if this was released in Germany first, with no R1 DVD-release available (there are plenty examples of this) - where would you take the "original" season indicator from then? Would you take a guess, and then update the profile when a R1 release comes around a few years down the line?  What if we were talking about a show of which the U.S. only had a "Complete Series" box set, but is released in separate season sets in other countries? Where'd you get the "original" season indicator from then? Or think about this: should we add "original" season indicators to R1 releases of U.K. TV shows, that usually have the word "Series" in the season indicator, while in the U.S. "Season" is used? Since the U.K. is the country of origin, should those U.K. season indicators be included as "original" in the U.S. profiles? I don't believe I've ever seen someone doing so, yet the reasoning is the same: either you include the "original" season indicator, or you don't. Not just in a few cases when it suits you... Again: I have found nothing in the rules supporting to apply "original titles" to season indicators, and I feel the examples above illustrate why that is... It's a minefield. Let's use a real-life example: what's the full "original title" for this R2 DVD release?  And don't tell me to "use the season indicator of the original US DVD", because thanks to music rights hell there is no "original US DVD"... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | OK, fair enough. Let's just say the original title should just be the name of the show in the country of origin and the "original" season indicator in this field should only be applied to local profiles. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting goodguy:
Quote:
Well, in that case, I revoke my agreement with T!M. For me the original title of the given sample would be "Home Improvement: The Complete First Season".
Can you show me how the rules would support, or even allow that in any way? Again, let me quote the rules on the original title field: "Use the title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's credits." Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin. i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field. The English title, for this release, is 'Home Improvement: The Complete First Season'. That is how I read this rule. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,029 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting goodguy:
Quote:
Well, in that case, I revoke my agreement with T!M. For me the original title of the given sample would be "Home Improvement: The Complete First Season".
Can you show me how the rules would support, or even allow that in any way? Again, let me quote the rules on the original title field: "Use the title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's credits." As far as I can see the rule was written with movie titles in mind. It doesn't address TV shows. Thus, I described what I would use as the original title. Quoting T!M: Quote:
Think about this question: what is your source for "The Complete First Season"? For the vast majority of TV show releases, the season descriptors follow well-established patterns. "Die komplette XX Staffel" is as common in Germany as "The Complete XX Season" is in US. We should simply use these patterns as well. But, unlike me, you are a big contributor. If you really feel comfortable introducing oddities like original title + localized season descriptor into the Online DB, so be it. I only chimed in here after DJ Doena's "so much for consensus" remark to support a position that a) seemed obviously correct to me and b) I thought you shared. | | | | Matthias |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Truth be told: I'm just not sure. It's just that I don't see anything about "original" season indicators in the rules (I agree that the rule on original titles probably wasn't written with TV shows in mind), and, as I pointed out earlier, I see various problems with the "use the season indicator of the original US DVD" approach. I've always regarded the "season indicator" and the "title" as two separate bits of data - with the "original title" rule only applying to the latter - which we just happen to enter into one field. I can't help thinking that if we had a separate field for "season indicator", this wouldn't be an issue.
Ken - if you're reading this - any chance of guidance on the subject? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Truth be told: I'm just not sure. It's just that I don't see anything about "original" season indicators in the rules (I agree that the rule on original titles probably wasn't written with TV shows in mind), and, as I pointed out earlier, I see various problems with the "use the season indicator of the original US DVD" approach. I've always regarded the "season indicator" and the "title" as two separate bits of data - with the "original title" rule only applying to the latter - which we just happen to enter into one field. I can't help thinking that if we had a separate field for "season indicator", this wouldn't be an issue. I might agree with you except for the fact that the title rule, for TV sets, says: " Season indicators, if listed on the cover, should be entered as part of the title, not the description. e.g. Angel: The Complete First Season." If the season indicator is to be entered as part of the title then, at least for me, it is part of the title. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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