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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Importing data from online resources like IMDB |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hello Synnerman, I do agree that this is a way it would help to link. But there will never be a "perfect" system for this. But the comment I made was in reaction of; Quoting Lewis_Prothero: Quote:
Quoting Draxen:
Quote:
The linking would be there in the way IMDB has it now.
While I agree with most of what you said, the quoted part still is something I heavily disagree with.
Simply because I don't see in how far the IMDB-system (or any other system) is supposed to solve the problems in linking as such.
When creating a profile I will, no matter which system we use, have to decide if "John Doe" is John Doe (I), John Doe (II), a new John Doe, a variant of "John X. Doe", or something completely different.
The same persons that are unwilling to apply linking nowadays (and demand another linking-system) will most definitely be unwilling to undergo the effort of linking with no matter which system. Because that's what it is: "effort". And from what I have had to read here, that's what many users are not willing to have with the maindatabase (their own local now is something completely different).
Instead of helping to improve the database "to best knowledge", its much easier to complain about an imperfect database. Strangely most of these complaints come from people that shortly after this complaint admit that they contribute "scarcely, if at all".
So: In how far is a change of the linking-system supposed to improve linking? And I agree with Lewis, that no matter how you do linking, any linking process will generate this problem, surely when a new profile needs to be added. But I do think that IMDB has a good linking system (not perfect either) but good. But I do disagree, with the part, that people that are unwilling to apply linking nowadays and that we shouldn't complain but help to improve the DB. For as far as I see, in the current way there is no decent linking available. And in reading all those post here, it seems to be, that there are 2 kinds of people; 1 being those that are following the rules regardless, but trying to build a perfect DB as the rules prescribes. And that is their own prerogative. 2 being the ones, that don't agree with the rules and follow their own way as they see fit. And that is then also their prerogative. And what is right and what is wrong, it all depends on the person’s point of view. But I also see, that those that are following the rules, regardless, are complaining about those that don't contribute. But those that are following their own way (being 2), they can't contribute profiles to PVP's DB. Because it is not according the rules. And this will be a discussion without ending. For again, what is right and what is wrong? |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | But to get back to the topic and why I would like to have implanted the possibility to get the data from IMDB directly, without the need of a plug-in and/or external tool.
As I do appreciate all the efforts for building plug-in and tools, this can not be used as it would be when it is built in the program directly. For using those tools/plug-in is in contras with DVP’s rules and way it is working. And in this way, the use is fragile and/or disables other futures of the program. Like for example, profile update.
At a point, I did start to update all my profiles with DJ Doenda’s tool, but after a couple of month work. Lots of those changes where gone. And I don’t know if it was because of IMDB, DVP, Doenda’s tool or my PC. I haven’t found this out. I did use/because of a crash, the DB repair, maybe because of this. I don’t know. But then I didn’t want to restart again and now I use it only when I don’t have Cast and/or crew. But my point is that when it is internal, you will have a more stable DB, because it is supported by the program itself.
And I would see an improvement if the release and movie part would be separated and a better linking system would be introduced, I (but that is my opinion, that can be proven wrong if such system would be introduced). I do believe, that IMDB is more evolved (as in size that is) than DVP’s new system would and could be. And yes, errors will be in the IMDB DB but those errors will also be in DVP’s DB. And also in the linking part, there is no perfection to be found, especially with those John Doe and John Smith and alike. But there is no clean solution for that. And all everybody can do is their best.
And if DVP does decide to get there own new separated DB. That will improve contributions, I’m sure, but then also it needs to make rules, rules to make it easier to be able to contribute. Like for example to except the cast as they have being put in the DB regarding the order on as is seen on the credit. But surely the possibility for those who would like to see the right order, to make it in the correct order, if they choose to do so. But this is only my opinion.
And may I add, that any implamentation of IMDB still could be optional and only for local use. So NO UPLOAD to DVP's DB, if people are out there, taht doesn't want to have this. | | | | Last edited: by Invisibleman |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I do understand your desire for an integrated IMDB tool.
The only way to legally make this happen is to approach IMDB for a licensing agreement. As has been stated before, there is a licensing cost associated with that agreement. Ken can not just arbitrarily say that he will add this function to the program (for it is a commercial product) without IMDB's blessing.
I understand that you would be willing to pay a yearly fee for this ability. I also understand that you would want Ken to make it optional, so that people would not have to pay for it. I do get all of that.
The question comes down to this, how many people would be willing to pay this additional fee? If the licensing agreement is $15k per year, and there are only 10 people that would pay, then you are looking at $1500 per person. if it is 1000 people then it would be $15. I would think the fee would be somewhere between$15 and $150 per person that opted for it. I am not sure how many people would be willing to pay. Ken would have to gauge the feelings of the community before he would make that decision. I am not sure if there is that much support for IMDB within the DVDP community.
The next thing that would happen, if Ken decided to do this, the people paying for the IMDB access would start to want to include the IMDB data into the main DB. There thing would be, since they are paying for it, they should be able to use it how they see fit.
I personally hope that it does not happen, and Ken fixes the problems with the linking system on his own. With some cooperation, and a little change, we could make this a lot better than it is. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Invisibleman: Quote:
For as far as I see, in the current way there is no decent linking available. I agree, but importing the IMDB data doesn't make things any better linking wise. Only worse. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Invisibleman: Quote:
At a point, I did start to update all my profiles with DJ Doenda’s tool, but after a couple of month work. Lots of those changes where gone. And I don’t know if it was because of IMDB, DVP, Doenda’s tool or my PC. I haven’t found this out. Did you lock your Cast & Crew? Quote:
But my point is that when it is internal, you will have a more stable DB, because it is supported by the program itself. Not true, db doesn't care how the data was entered, manually, via plugin, external tool etc. Once it's in db, it's in db. Making import function internal doesn't have anything to do with more stable db. Quote:
But surely the possibility for those who would like to see the right order, to make it in the correct order, if they choose to do so. Define "right" or "correct" order if it's not as credited order. Quote:
And may I add, that any implamentation of IMDB still could be optional and only for local use. So NO UPLOAD to DVP's DB, if people are out there, taht doesn't want to have this. May I add once again that no matter how optional this would be for DVDP users, Ken would still have to pay same amount of money for it. Are you just trolling or don't you really get this? |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I do understand your desire for an integrated IMDB tool.
The next thing that would happen, if Ken decided to do this, the people paying for the IMDB access would start to want to include the IMDB data into the main DB. There thing would be, since they are paying for it, they should be able to use it how they see fit. I do truly believe, that if people are choosing to get the data from IMDB DB, they do not have the need to upload to DVP's DB. For they will get the data and also any profile update from IMDB then. And you can mention this clearly when you build such an option in. I also believe, that more people are willing to pay for such an option. And as I said before, DVP is a great program as it is, so I do also believe, that lots of people that now are paying to the other programs, they will switch to DVP, but because of the missing IMDB part, they have now choosed the other program, that they are also paying a fee for. |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kulju: Quote:
Quoting Invisibleman:
Quote:
At a point, I did start to update all my profiles with DJ Doenda’s tool, but after a couple of month work. Lots of those changes where gone. And I don’t know if it was because of IMDB, DVP, Doenda’s tool or my PC. I haven’t found this out.
Did you lock your Cast & Crew?
Quote:
But my point is that when it is internal, you will have a more stable DB, because it is supported by the program itself.
Not true, db doesn't care how the data was entered, manually, via plugin, external tool etc. Once it's in db, it's in db. Making import function internal doesn't have anything to do with more stable db.
Quote:
But surely the possibility for those who would like to see the right order, to make it in the correct order, if they choose to do so.
Define "right" or "correct" order if it's not as credited order.
Quote:
And may I add, that any implamentation of IMDB still could be optional and only for local use. So NO UPLOAD to DVP's DB, if people are out there, taht doesn't want to have this.
May I add once again that no matter how optional this would be for DVDP users, Ken would still have to pay same amount of money for it. Are you just trolling or don't you really get this? To me this kind of DB (DVP's) is that when something like that happends, I can correct easy again, by downloading those profiles, that went wrong. That is what I call a stable DB. And this stable part, you are missing. And I also stated, that I needed to use the DB repair, that there the problem would be. I don't know that. In the statement, that you are quoting, it is seen, what I mean by that. But to clarify, now people seem to find the right order, is the order as it is seen on the credits as you can see in the movie. But f this rule would be more flexible, then this will improve contributions, I think. And if, in your eyes, I'm troling, there is no need for anybody to read, is there? The thread is about an IMDB option. And it's an option that I still would like to see, and if by talking about such, is troling then so be it. And if you don't like such an option and/or you are not willing to pay for such an option, that is your choice and I respect that. But it is my opinion, that there are more people that are willing to pay. You got you opinion about this and I have mine. |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | @Kulju,
I guess, I missread a part of the right order. Here to clarify some more, I hope. Now the right order is, as it is seen on the credits. But if the rules would be more flexible, meaning in any random order with the correct actors and such focourse, this should also become acceptable. This is what I mean, and surely the option to make the right order (as is seen on the credits) if people would preffer to have it like that. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 485 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Invisibleman: Quote:
<...>And if, in your eyes, I'm troling, there is no need for anybody to read, is there? The thread is about an IMDB option. And it's an option that I still would like to see, and if by talking about such, is troling then so be it. And if you don't like such an option and/or you are not willing to pay for such an option, that is your choice and I respect that. But it is my opinion, that there are more people that are willing to pay. You got you opinion about this and I have mine. Well, you've made your point around page 1 of this thread and we're now 17 pages further. Only one (JMG51) bothered to jump to your aid, all others, with various arguments, argued against. And the poll (at this time) says 50 against, 12 for. After 17 pages, I'd say your initial question has been answered -- though not like you would have wanted. Still you continue, not really amending your proposal to objections, yes, that's trolling... (and I do have the first Harry Potter movie image of a troll here, not the LoTR/Hobbit trolls  ) One thing you didn't pick up on, but IMHO is important is the following. The 15k$ rariff is a MINIMUM and with the installed base of DVDp they could easily ask tenfold or from from Invelos. Yet Invelos would have to depend on an unkown number of users that would sign up for it. With the current (one-off) charge for DVDp, my guess would be people would, if ever they would want to sign up for it, be not willing to pay more than around 10 US$. Which means a guess for 1500 or 15.000 or... paying people, depending on the actual tariff. Trow in other arguments for not doing it, like making your program depending on Google/IMdb rather than being independent, and even a true troll would seek other things to pursue. Would you give guarantee to Invelos to cover its losses if not enough people sign-up for it? Would you bet your house on it? | | | Eric
If it is important, say it. Otherwise, let silence speak. | | | | Last edited: by eommen |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Invisibleman: Quote:
I guess, I missread a part of the right order. Here to clarify some more, I hope. Now the right order is, as it is seen on the credits. But if the rules would be more flexible, meaning in any random order with the correct actors and such focourse, this should also become acceptable. This is what I mean, and surely the option to make the right order (as is seen on the credits) if people would preffer to have it like that. Online db can only have order in one way. If you choose different order than me, it would lead to an endless ping-ponging about the "correct" order. Oh well, not with you it wouldn't, because you don't contribute. You can have any order you wish in your local db, but for online contributions we need a rule. I personally can't figure out better rule than as credited. Can you? |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting eommen: Quote:
One thing you didn't pick up on, but IMHO is important is the following. The 15k$ rariff is a MINIMUM and with the installed base of DVDp they could easily ask tenfold or from from Invelos. Yet Invelos would have to depend on an unkown number of users that would sign up for it. With the current (one-off) charge for DVDp, my guess would be people would, if ever they would want to sign up for it, be not willing to pay more than around 10 US$. Which means a guess for 1500 or 15.000 or... paying people, depending on the actual tariff. I think we should give up, we're wasting your time. It has been explained to him umpteenth times and he still doesn't get it. Hopeless case... |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 77 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kulju: Quote:
Quoting Invisibleman:
Quote:
I guess, I missread a part of the right order. Here to clarify some more, I hope. Now the right order is, as it is seen on the credits. But if the rules would be more flexible, meaning in any random order with the correct actors and such focourse, this should also become acceptable. This is what I mean, and surely the option to make the right order (as is seen on the credits) if people would preffer to have it like that.
Online db can only have order in one way. If you choose different order than me, it would lead to an endless ping-ponging about the "correct" order. Oh well, not with you it wouldn't, because you don't contribute. You can have any order you wish in your local db, but for online contributions we need a rule. I personally can't figure out better rule than as credited. Can you? I do agree, that there should be some rules, but I mean if someone initially can upload a new profil with cast/crew in a random way and if someone wants to change that order to the way it is credit, that should be possible. And ones it is in the credit order, it shouldn't be allowed to change back to any random order anymore. But then at least you will have the actors/crew in. So initially, yes in random order, but the credit order will always overrule other orders. If you know what I mean. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | I really think it is a bad idea to have different rules for an initial contribution then we have for update contributions. All rules should be for all contributions. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,849 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Invisibleman: Quote:
if someone initially can upload a new profil with cast/crew in a random way and if someone wants to change that order to the way it is credit, that should be possible. I personally think Invelos should strip out all cast and crew information from initial contributions made before the release date. This way there is at least some chance that the cast/crew data might have come off the actual disc. --------------- |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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