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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What does Invelos want? |
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| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | While auditing more fields accurately is obviously better, any data that is accurate is better than no data. There was a recent set of contributions for a TV series where the only field that was updated was the running time. Someone (not me) voted "No" saying it didn't add "Significant value". While it may not have been much on an individual profile level, it was correcting the value in many profiles & would've taken quite some time to collate the info. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think I've put my point over very well - and for that I apologise.
My response was mainly as a result of the number of users stating the the online db was useless to them.
I'm not, by any means, saying that partial contributions are a bad thing. On the contrary, they are an essential part of the program.
All I was trying to say is that if someone is completing one of the easier fields in Profiler then I don't understand why they can't complete another couple of the easy ones at the same time. That's all.
As I stated I often see Media Companies being moved but the rating details still haven't been added. I don't see that it's such a hardship to add that at the same time.
I'm not stating that everyone should do full audits. All I'm saying is that if more people took the time to double check the profile for other missing info that is easy to complete then the online db would be much better.
There are a lot of people who use the cast and crew as a clone of IMDB - so obviously those people can't contribute those areas...and there's nothing wrong in that. The last thing I would expect is for someone to do 2 versions of their cast/crew: one for contribution and one for local.
@Pete
I'm sorry that incident is still an issue for you. Obviously my apology at the time was not sufficient. I am sorry, despite what you may think. There was no excuse for my behaviour or for me taking out on you my frustration with others.
As for your specific comment - I do not look down on users for doing partial contributions. My comments above and previously are not aimed at any specific user. I also do not feel I have stated my viewpoint in a manner which indicates I feel other users work is useless.
I have merely expressed an opinion. I sincerely apologise if this opinion offends those people who do partials.
As an aside....it's quite funny that when I first came in these forums all those years ago I was utterly 'destroyed' here for advocating partial contributions. At that time there really was a 'do it all or don't do anything' attitude. Funny how things change and (again!) apologies for coming off like that; which is not what I intended. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I seemed not to explain myself in my post properly.. for that I apologize. It was nothing personal and that past incident is just that... but I was simply trying to say that the way the post came across,,, how it could be read to make someone feel what they are doing is not good enough. And when people feel that... more times then not the feeling of why should I bother comes after that.
There has been many times that I had an extra 10 minutes to spare and figured what the heck... I will upload a few quick contributions since I have a few minutes. And I personally think that should be appreciated as well.
Why not do a few other fields while you add one or two? could be a few reasons...
1. only time for something quick and easy... no time to waste by putting in the disc
2. nothing pops out that obviously needs to be fixed
3. Not everyone feels they should do fields that do not interest them. And that is perfectly fine
4. Don't understand that field enough and there is not enough interest in the field to learn to do it properly. Must remember... just because a field seems easy to one person... don't mean it is to the next person.
5. And sure.. I am sure there are those that wants to make multiple contributions to make their numbers go up. In my opinion... so what? if it makes them feel good they are hurting no one. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I seemed not to explain myself in my post properly.. for that I apologize. It was nothing personal and that past incident is just that... but I was simply trying to say that the way the post came across,,, how it could be read to make someone feel what they are doing is not good enough. And when people feel that... more times then not the feeling of why should I bother comes after that.
There has been many times that I had an extra 10 minutes to spare and figured what the heck... I will upload a few quick contributions since I have a few minutes. And I personally think that should be appreciated as well.
Why not do a few other fields while you add one or two? could be a few reasons...
1. only time for something quick and easy... no time to waste by putting in the disc
2. nothing pops out that obviously needs to be fixed
3. Not everyone feels they should do fields that do not interest them. And that is perfectly fine
4. Don't understand that field enough and there is not enough interest in the field to learn to do it properly. Must remember... just because a field seems easy to one person... don't mean it is to the next person.
5. And sure.. I am sure there are those that wants to make multiple contributions to make their numbers go up. In my opinion... so what? if it makes them feel good they are hurting no one. Just taking my example of Rating Details and Media companies....only point 3 would seem to apply. (Or possibly point 2 if someone is particularly unobservant). Anyway I understand the point you are making. Maybe because I do full audits (despite not wanting some of the data I submit) I work from a very unselfish position. I always think first: will someone else want this information?....and if the answer is yes I complete it; which is how I personally feel everyone should operate regarding a user built database. But, that's just me. So, on one hand I fully understand the need for partial contributions and people who are only interested in certain things. But, on the other (much more critical) hand I think it is selfish to ONLY complete the fields you are interested in. (There are plenty of field that require no special knowledge or effort to complete IMO). More importantly though is the reason why I even bothered to comment to begin with: people were complaining about the online db being useless. Very few seem to be making any kind of effort to improve it, that's all. An obviously unpopular viewpoint but one I am entitled to (espcially when I'm not targeting any user in particular) and not one that anyone should take offence at. Hey, just ignore me if you don't like how I feel about the program!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well.. #5 would also apply in such situations. and as I stated... if that is what makes them feel good. More power to them. As I said... I appreciate all the hard work that anyone doing a complete audit does. But at the same time I also appreciate a single field being done (as long as it is correctly of course)... even if the profile is mostly blank I am more then happy to see a single field entered. Even a very small step in the right direction gets us closer to our goal.  | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Although not always, I do try to make sure that all the smaller fields are filled in accurately. If I have more time, I'll also do the cast. So far, other than the occasional Director, I haven't touched the crew section at all. For one, I'm not interested in 99% of the info there but am for the others (or at least they're easy to find & enter), and also until something clear and definitive is defined over whether or not such and such a title can be entered because of one or two slightly different characters in the job title, I'll keep away from it. Once that's been done, if I feel confident enough to enter them then I might re-evaluate my position on crew. In the mean time, as one of our supermarkets say  . |
| | Registered: December 13, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I usually look at all fields except cast and crew. Empty or incomplete ones I'll try to fill, any others that seem "suspicious" in any way I'll check. I'm also of the opinion that anything (however small) that makes the online better is welcome.
I do understand what Pantheon is saying though. MC and rating details usually can be done together in a glance.
To go as far as to say that people purposely contribute in little pieces to inflate their numbers as Skip suggests though, is imo just being paranoid. What is there to gain? It's not a contest, after all.
I've contributed a lot the last few monthes, and my experience is that on average there are 2 to 5 changes needed (that I can see). With a few of these contributions others have given valuable feedback as to some extra changes that could be made, or also on occasion, why the contribution was partially incorrect. (Thanks to Forget-the-Rest, T!M, and "the dot" just to name a few of these helpful users.)
Never once has this led to a conflict. I learned something, some others chose to help out which enhanced my "community-feeling" ánd the online benefited from it. That's how it should work imo.
I'm not about to start worrying about if someone thinks I'm "inflating" my numbers. That kind of talk is unfounded, discouraging and therefore counterproductive and can best be ignored. |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 524 |
| | Posted: | | | | From an Invelos standpoint, there is nothing wrong with a partial contribution. Any accurate data is better than no data at all.
As someone said, it isn't a contest, so there is no need to worry about "inflating your numbers". | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | ****no personal attacks***** | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | ******No Comments on Moderator actions*************** | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote:
From an Invelos standpoint, there is nothing wrong with a partial contribution. Any accurate data is better than no data at all.
As someone said, it isn't a contest, so there is no need to worry about "inflating your numbers". Which is what I said. There is nothing wrong with partial contributions and it is to be actively encouraged. I was merely expressing a personal opinion that I would like to see more users filling in all the blanks they can (so to speak). I would also like to point out that there are a lot of users who already do as I suggest - as evidenced by the contributions I see for voting. It would just be nice if more people did the same. After all this is a user built database and selfishness will not improve it....which is the very reason I returned to contributing after a decision to stop. I just don't have it in me to keep my work to myself - if I've done it then I want everyone else to benefit from it too. |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 524 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
From an Invelos standpoint, there is nothing wrong with a partial contribution. Any accurate data is better than no data at all.
As someone said, it isn't a contest, so there is no need to worry about "inflating your numbers".
Which is what I said.
There is nothing wrong with partial contributions and it is to be actively encouraged.
I was merely expressing a personal opinion that I would like to see more users filling in all the blanks they can (so to speak).
I would also like to point out that there are a lot of users who already do as I suggest - as evidenced by the contributions I see for voting. It would just be nice if more people did the same. After all this is a user built database and selfishness will not improve it....which is the very reason I returned to contributing after a decision to stop. I just don't have it in me to keep my work to myself - if I've done it then I want everyone else to benefit from it too. I agree with you. Very well said. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Anyway I understand the point you are making. Maybe because I do full audits (despite not wanting some of the data I submit) I work from a very unselfish position.
I always think first: will someone else want this information?....and if the answer is yes I complete it; which is how I personally feel everyone should operate regarding a user built database. But, that's just me. Right. That's you. It's not me. My way is that I see that cast and crew are often left out of contributions. I like doing cast and crew, so I focus my attention there. The more time I spend doing "full audits", the less cast and crew I do. Therefore, I concentrate on cast and crew. I don't find that "selfish". To me, I'm putting my effort to where it's needed most. Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
So, on one hand I fully understand the need for partial contributions and people who are only interested in certain things. But, on the other (much more critical) hand I think it is selfish to ONLY complete the fields you are interested in. (There are plenty of field that require no special knowledge or effort to complete IMO). Everything requires effort and contribution notes to prove the data. It's not an effortless process, especially if you make a mistake. Please allow for that and don't label it "selfish". Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
More importantly though is the reason why I even bothered to comment to begin with: people were complaining about the online db being useless. Very few seem to be making any kind of effort to improve it, that's all. It's odd to me to level this claim against those of us who make partial contributions since we are making an "effort to improve it", just not to the extent that you would like. Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
An obviously unpopular viewpoint but one I am entitled to (espcially when I'm not targeting any user in particular) and not one that anyone should take offence at.
Hey, just ignore me if you don't like how I feel about the program! It's especially unpopular with me because I don't think we should be targeting those of us who, using your example which you found "disturbing", contribute media companies without contributing ratings details. And to ignore you is to risk your view being seen as popular in the absence of opposing viewpoints. Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
There is nothing wrong with partial contributions and it is to be actively encouraged. Yet you've labeled them selfish?  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with partial contributions and it is to be actively encouraged.
Yet you've labeled them selfish? You're taking what I have said out of context and making it seem as though I'm demanding something. That is NOT the case. I merely expressed an opinion: that I would like more users to make more of an effort. To fill in 2 fields rather than one if possible. There's also the possibility that you and I have different views on what constitutes a partial contribution. To me it is anything less than doing a full audit - and there are many, many fields in between. So completing one field is partial and so is completing 5. I don't understand the mentality that does the 1 field when others need completing. As for selfish. I'm sorry but I do think it's selfish to only complete the fields you're interested in. The only exception being cast and crew - for the reasons I have stated earlier. I'm sorry that my opinion on this has bent you out of shape. But, it is after all, ONLY MY OPINION. In the scheme of things it's not very important either. I realise that I'm coming at this topic from the perspective of someone who does full audits - so, I'll take a chill pill and give it a rest shall I? I'm a supporter of partial contributions and always have been. But....( THE FOLLOWING IS ONLY MY OPINION)I do not understand the laziness inherent in completing a single field such as Media Company but leaving the missing Rating Details empty....especially if those are the only 2 things missing in the profile. I also do not think there is anything wrong in encouraging users to do MORE on a profile than less. That harms no one and leads to a better database IMO. There's always a possibility that a new user reading this thread will agree with me and do that little bit extra for the community. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with partial contributions and it is to be actively encouraged.
Yet you've labeled them selfish?
You're taking what I have said out of context and making it seem as though I'm demanding something.
That is NOT the case. I merely expressed an opinion: that I would like more users to make more of an effort. To fill in 2 fields rather than one if possible. Whether you are making demands or not is not what I take issue with. Your mere opinion labels certain contributions as "disturbing" and "selfish". That's what I take issue with. Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
There's also the possibility that you and I have different views on what constitutes a partial contribution. To me it is anything less than doing a full audit - and there are many, many fields in between. So completing one field is partial and so is completing 5. I don't understand the mentality that does the 1 field when others need completing. It's fine if you don't understand it, but your derogatory descriptions of those contributions is what I object to. Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I'm a supporter of partial contributions and always have been. But....(THE FOLLOWING IS ONLY MY OPINION)I do not understand the laziness inherent in completing a single field such as Media Company but leaving the missing Rating Details empty....especially if those are the only 2 things missing in the profile.
I also do not think there is anything wrong in encouraging users to do MORE on a profile than less. That harms no one and leads to a better database IMO.
There's always a possibility that a new user reading this thread will agree with me and do that little bit extra for the community. I don't think that labeling certain contributions as disturbing, selfish and lazy is an acceptable form of encouragement. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
I don't think that labeling certain contributions as disturbing, selfish and lazy is an acceptable form of encouragement. Not labeling. Merely expressing a personal opinion on this issue. I'm sorry you feel offended. I'll agree to disagree on this issue. Regardless of how I feel I will not stop contributing for the benefit of others as well as myself. A waterfall starts as a single drop of rain....if just one person feels I am correct in my opinion and makes an effort to do that tiny bit more on a profile, then I think that's a good thing. You seem to forget that my only desire with my opinion is to improve the database. Nothing I have suggested would be detrimental to the database. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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