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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | How do we parse Natasha Gregson Wagner? I've done some research - Wikipedia (and various other sources) reports: "Natasha's birth surname is Gregson, though Robert Wagner raised her after Natalie Wood's death by drowning in 1981." I encountered a contribution citing this in order to change the parsing to Natasha//Gregson Wagner - is that correct? Or not? The same Wikipedia-article refers to her as "Wagner" too... |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 767 |
| Posted: | | | | There is a cultural and semantic difference of the phrase "maiden name". In Europe, a woman's maiden name is part of the last name, either with or without a hyphen. And in the US, it's considered a middle name. For people who sort their cast and crew by "last name first name", the various parsings of maiden names can be confusing. Personally, I would use Natasha//Gregson Wagner, but then again, I'm European |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Psst, Marcel, Natasha is an American not a European. So I think applying Euro culture is ummmm incorrect. I think the various references in the wiki article to Ms. Wagner, NOT Ms. Gregson Wagner says it all. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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Registered: May 22, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,033 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting marcelb7: Quote: And in the US, it's considered a middle name. It is? -Agrare |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting marcelb7: Quote: There is a cultural and semantic difference of the phrase "maiden name". In Europe, a woman's maiden name is part of the last name, either with or without a hyphen. And in the US, it's considered a middle name. For people who sort their cast and crew by "last name first name", the various parsings of maiden names can be confusing.
Personally, I would use Natasha//Gregson Wagner, but then again, I'm European You shouldn't make that assumption when it comes to the US as it is, in fact, wrong. While some women will replace their middle name with their maiden name, it certainly isn't the norm. The norm, at least the last time I checked the statistics, was to drop the maiden name completely. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,506 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote: Quoting marcelb7:
Quote: And in the US, it's considered a middle name.
It is?
-Agrare I think he meant that sometimes women in the US drop their middle name in favour of their maiden name when they marry while here in Europe it's not at all common to do that & I've certainly not come across it at all. I can't remember the alleded percentage, but it was lower than some users here would have us believe. As for this particular case, I did a search & found references to both however 1/2/3 did seem to be the most common. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | Natasha Gregson Wagner presents an unusual problem.
Natasha Gregson was born to Natalie Wood (American) and Richard Gregson (Brit?). When her mother married Robert Wagner for the second time (with Gregson in between), Robert Wagner adopted Natasha, thereby giving her the name Wagner. So this isn't exactly the same thing as with the standard "maiden name" argument. While I suppose technically "Gregson" could be considered her "maiden" name, since she added her step-father's surname an argument COULD be made that "Gregson Wagner" is now her surname. It's not as if Natasha Gregson married someone named Wagner -- she inherited "Wagner" when her step-father adopted her. She evidently chooses to respect her two fathers by using both names in credits. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Personally I don't care what you people or this stupid poll says: it's Natasha/Gregson Wagner and that's how it's going to stay in my db! |
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Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,004 |
| Posted: | | | | I've lived in the US for 25 years and have barely heard of replacing the middle name with the maiden name. The norm is to drop it. If retained, it is invariably part of the last name. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | Oh it is definitely done... I know women that has done it. And heard of several others doing it. It could be more regional (within certain areas of the US) or even a "fad" of the times that may continue or not. But I do know it is being done quite a bit. | | | Pete |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Ace: You don't get out enough. I can tell you FACTUALLY that it happens from my own family and from many people I have known over the years both in and out of Hollywood. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,004 |
| Posted: | | | | Perhaps it would be better to say that in every customer DB I've ever worked on, we treated maiden name as part of the last name. I think peopel are gettign this from Wikipedia. Note Wikipedia says this is an infomal middle name, I believe meaning only that it is typically written between the first and last names. | | | Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 17,334 |
| Posted: | | | | nope... I actually know a few women that dropped their middle name and legally changed their maiden name to their middle name. And know of (friends of friends and such) several others that has done so.
I also heard of women that don't drop their middle... but legally change their names so they have 2 middle names. | | | Pete |
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Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,665 |
| Posted: | | | | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Nope, Ace wrong again. I speak from personal experience and knowledge, I don't even use Wikipedia. The only way we can KNOW without any investigation is if a hyphen is used this applies to first names as well. Should it be Mary Jane// or Mary/Jane/ BOTH can be correct, if we see Mary-Jane then we know but without the hyphen we know nothing. So we start at Mary/Jane/, if you can document Mary Jane// cool, I won't argue. But if you are going to just say it should be Mary Jane// because you have never seen a Mary/Jane, well then guess what.... We'll do ST IV allover again. I am less concerned about getting the name CORRECT as opposed to it appearing as it does On Screen, I am not sure what value is added to digging up someone's birth and Marriage records and perhaps even other Legal documents so we can get the name CORRECT. And each movie credit stands on its own, just because we might see a NG-W and a NGW does not mean that the name is NG-W, a person can al;ways go to court and get the name changed from NG-W to NGW. Now if we see a sequence of films that was MG-W, NGW and then another NG-W then we can build a prima facie case that the name IS N//GW. I have used myself as an example before Ace, my own name can be listed at least 25 different ways and you would have absolutely no way of knowing which one i might consider the most correct and in such a case what you THINK is not relevant, it is MY name and I will tell YOU what the name IS, Contacting these people is impractical at best, impossible at worst, so we have to start SOMEWHERE, absent a hyphen or some sort of documentation I will always say use the default 1/2/3, at least the data appears as it does On Screen, which seems to me to be the miost important issue from a Profiler POV. Is the target going to get offended, hardly. My last name is so frequently misspelled that unless it is a legal document I don't even worry about it anymore. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote: Referred to as Ms. Wagner in the NY Times Referred to as Wagner in the SF Chronicle - 1998 and again in 2006
I could go on but dinner's ready. I might call you a lot of things tweeter, but never will I call you late for dinner. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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