Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Copying cast/crew from different profile not allowed ?!
Author Message
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhevanw
Registered: March 18, 2007
Belgium Posts: 426
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I just got a No vote from someone claiming that "the US profile is not a valid source". I've been copying cast & crew from other profiles for months and never got any issues.
I can hardly believe that this would not be allowed.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 5,917
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Ignore it unless they give you more detailed information.

If memory serves, an existing profile is a valid source.  I've copied cast information for a box set onto the children and they got in okay.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBehemot
Registered: Aug. 23, 2004
Registered: March 14, 2007
Norway Posts: 555
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
You need to quote the source given in the contribution notes of the profile which you have copied. If those notes say that cast/crew data is taken from the actual movie credits then you should put this in your notes. If the contribution notes of the copied profile do not state a source, then you must check the credits yourself to see if the profile is correct. There are still a lot of old profiles with IMDB data in the database, and copying info from one of these only propagates bad data into new profiles.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDarxon
Vescere bracis meis
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 742
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Unfortunately, there's also a lot of profiles in the IVS db that don't have sufficient contribution notes as they were not mandatory in the start-up phase. You'll find lots of profiles only having "New submission" as the contribution notes, so you'd have to go back to Intervocative's DVDP and check the notes there
Lutz
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkahless
TaH pagh taHbe'!
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 17,804
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Either way it's better to verify all copied data from other releases or regions. With this procedure we must not be afraid to dilute the data quality.
Thorsten
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttipi
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 27
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
well, IF the database were done properly, there would be only set of cast/crew data for each movie, and that information for all the different dvd-localities would be gotten from there.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSpartacus
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 24
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Tipi is 100% right. It's really a bad database design to duplicate same cast/crew -information for dozens of profiles. And please, no excuses like "this is a DVD-database". Even though, it is still bad programming to waste bytes for duplicating identical information. Basically all the information about the movie itself (cast, crew, year of production, country of production, genres, studios) might be common for all the profiles and all the information about the DVD itself should be as it is at the moment.

Well, I guess it's not too late to change the system, it only requires some one-time extra work from Ken.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLithurge
Paralysis by analysis
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,279
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Tipi may be mostly right but there are always exceptions where the cast and crew do not match when released in a different region.

Which means any change would still have to allow for differences in cast and crew and whichever other fields (studios will be one) that need differentiation.
IVS Registered: January 2, 2002
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhevanw
Registered: March 18, 2007
Belgium Posts: 426
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Frankly, if I need to go to so much trouble to contribute, I'd rather not contribute anymore.
I could just write in the submission notes "I went through the hastle of watching all the episodes, writing down the closing credits for each episode, and typing them in in DVD Profiler" while I just copied the stuff from a different profile. No one would know and no questions would be asked.
I can understand that there are issues with copying from copyrighted sources such as IMDB. But if there is already stuff that MAY be copied from there, I don't see why it would harm to copy it further since it's already there. It's not like IMDB would scrutinize all profiles, especially not from small localities such as the Netherlands (where we have much less contributers and will therefore have far less accurate/complete data).
Also, if the concern is incompleteness or inaccuracy of the source data: well, I'd much rather have incomplete or inaccurate data that I can copy in an instant (and share with other compatriots) than have no data at all because I don't feel like (or have the time) to go through all closing credits one by one.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhevanw
Registered: March 18, 2007
Belgium Posts: 426
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
PS: you know what is even more ridiculous ? I just had a look and in this actual case, it's a change from an EMPTY crew list to an actual crew list. The No voter states I should only submit episode-specific crew (I guess because he went to the trouble to do it for the cast since he is the original submitter of the profile).
Not even to mention it is in locality Netherlands while he is German (although of course it is perfectly possible he has the Dutch version).
 Last edited: by hevanw
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLithurge
Paralysis by analysis
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,279
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
You do realise that the votes aren't the be all and end all of a submission?

They guide the screeners but they do have discretion to ignore as they see fit.
IVS Registered: January 2, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSpartacus
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 24
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Lithurge:
Quote:
Tipi may be mostly right but there are always exceptions where the cast and crew do not match when released in a different region.

Which means any change would still have to allow for differences in cast and crew and whichever other fields (studios will be one) that need differentiation.


How many cases there are when exactly the same movie have differences in cast and crew when it is released on DVD on different locations? I think there is none, because if there are changes it obviously isn't the same movie anymore. In case you are referring some Director's Cut or Extended Editions which may have differences in different market areas, or cases like Stanley Kubrick's The Shining: they are clearly different version of the movie, thus needing of course own entry in database.

And some rare exceptions are not the reason to support a bad database design. I can understand that originally DVDP was used to catalog only Region 1 DVD's, so it was not such a big deal if same information was stored twice, but nowadays there may be ten different DVD-releases (maby even more in some cases) of same movie on R1-area alone, plus couple of dozens more worldwide. So is it really necessary to store exactly the same information (in worst cases) hundred times? As a software designer myself I don't see any good reason for such a waste of bytes.

I'd like to hear Mr. Cole's opinion about the current database design and are there any plans to make changes so that the same information is not duplicated unnecessarily.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhevanw
Registered: March 18, 2007
Belgium Posts: 426
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Lithurge:
Quote:
You do realise that the votes aren't the be all and end all of a submission?

They guide the screeners but they do have discretion to ignore as they see fit.


You're right, I should just calm down and see what Gerri does in this case .
It just pisses me off that some from a different locality would come tell me what I should and should not do when all fellow countrymen are very happy with the submissions. Also, he is the only contributer so far so it almost looks as if he is protecting his profile.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,242
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
It's still not advisable to just copy the details from another profile without checking it against your copy of the DVD.

I downloaded the cast and crew information for the Star Trek TNG and DS9 series from the IVS site when I first started using DVD. Since moving over to DVDP V3...and having time due to un-employment I have been re-watching those DVD's, and whilst about it updated cast (not to bothered with crew details myself) and placed them into the new Episode Dividers (as many of you will know), you will be surprised at the number of actors I had to remove from the old IVS versions where upon checking they were an exact copy of the IMDb listings, yet weren't credited on the DVD or even listed as (uncredited).

So just copying from another profile isn't always prudent. The only thing (with the cast lists) for those profiles that might be required to be changed now might be the Common Name / Credited As aspect of it.

Even DVD'd on my wish list are taken for granted...until I purchase that DVD, then I verify whether the cast is correct or not...and if found Not I will submit an update for said DVD. There are some contributors around that I have noticed feel the same way inclined, unfortunately there are too many who would rather copy the info from IMDb and just claim to have used the DVD.

Steve
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,715
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Spartacus:
Quote:
Quoting Lithurge:
And some rare exceptions are not the reason to support a bad database design. I can understand that originally DVDP was used to catalog only Region 1 DVD's, so it was not such a big deal if same information was stored twice, but nowadays there may be ten different DVD-releases (maby even more in some cases) of same movie on R1-area alone, plus couple of dozens more worldwide. So is it really necessary to store exactly the same information (in worst cases) hundred times? As a software designer myself I don't see any good reason for such a waste of bytes.

The wasted bytes are not really the matter of fact. - For me it's the waste of time to maintain dozens of profiles with the same data, which should let us think about perfect designs - or at least we should improve the design wherever possible...

Regards AA
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLithurge
Paralysis by analysis
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,279
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Spartacus:
Quote:
Quoting Lithurge:
Quote:
Tipi may be mostly right but there are always exceptions where the cast and crew do not match when released in a different region.

Which means any change would still have to allow for differences in cast and crew and whichever other fields (studios will be one) that need differentiation.


How many cases there are when exactly the same movie have differences in cast and crew when it is released on DVD on different locations? I think there is none, because if there are changes it obviously isn't the same movie anymore. In case you are referring some Director's Cut or Extended Editions which may have differences in different market areas, or cases like Stanley Kubrick's The Shining: they are clearly different version of the movie, thus needing of course own entry in database.

And some rare exceptions are not the reason to support a bad database design. I can understand that originally DVDP was used to catalog only Region 1 DVD's, so it was not such a big deal if same information was stored twice, but nowadays there may be ten different DVD-releases (maby even more in some cases) of same movie on R1-area alone, plus couple of dozens more worldwide. So is it really necessary to store exactly the same information (in worst cases) hundred times? As a software designer myself I don't see any good reason for such a waste of bytes.

I'd like to hear Mr. Cole's opinion about the current database design and are there any plans to make changes so that the same information is not duplicated unnecessarily.


Check out the R1 & R2 (UK) releases of The Faculty. Not to mention any Anime titles.

Besides I said any change would have to allow for these differences not that there should be no change.
IVS Registered: January 2, 2002
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next